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Author Topic: OLD CALLS  (Read 5218 times)
KB1BZR
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Posts: 79




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« on: November 14, 2010, 09:26:49 AM »

 Huh


I have never met somethng more confusing.


I am told an old call of mine can not be restored. (by W5YI group)


I ask a year later and they simply do not reply.


Can I get an old call back ??



The problem here is the old calls were Alaska/Hawaii/US Territories.



THEN it seems to say the above can not be done if they were VANITY calls. None were.



I don't wish to rent or search for a mailing address in  Port o PeeWee Artic Guam  (calls go by mailing address ?)



Can I get an old call back. (Alaska/Hawaii/US Territories)


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N2EY
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Posts: 3849




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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 10:02:25 AM »

Read Part 97

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Part97_SinglePage.pdf

---

You can't get an old out-of-the-48-states callsign back as a vanity call unless your mailing address is in the corresponding area. Oddly enough, that limitation does not apply to family members who want an SK's call as a memorial.

73 de Jim  N2EY
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W3HF
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 05:21:45 PM »

You can't get an old out-of-the-48-states callsign back as a vanity call unless your mailing address is in the corresponding area.

That does seem to be what 97.19 says, but it's not what the FCC's help page on former holder vanity apps says:

Quote from: FCC
For your primary station, you may request a call sign that was previously assigned to your primary, secondary, repeater, auxiliary link, control or space station. When so requesting for your primary station:

- You may request your former call sign even though it has been unassigned for less than two years. The two-year requirement does not apply to an otherwise eligible primary station if the call sign was previously assigned to a station of the requestor

- You do not have to hold a class of operator license required for the Group (A, B, C or D) for the call sign requested. A call sign request by a former holder may be from any Group in the sequential system.

- Your mailing address does not have to be in the Region designated in the sequential system for the call sign requested. A call sign requested by a former holder may be in any Region.

For the record, a few years back I was able to document from the callbooks a former KH6 holder from the mid-60s, and the FCC re-issued him the old call. (They had previously denied the vanity app, as they had no proof he was a former holder.)
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KB1BZR
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Posts: 79




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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 03:33:37 PM »

One might see why I'm all mixed up.


I don't want to screw something up and find myself crying for any call.


If one can get an old call back without using any 'vanity' system. (?)



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W3HF
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 03:57:59 PM »

If one can get an old call back without using any 'vanity' system. (?)

No, the only way to get your old call back is with a vanity application. That's the only way to request a specific callsign--anything else will just be a sequential call.

Submit your application as a "former holder", and be prepared to offer proof that you held the callsign previously. This can be your original license (or a copy), a "License Verification Letter" from the FCC's records contractor (if this was since about 1968, which is the date of the oldest FCC records), or a copy of a callbook listing.
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KB1BZR
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 04:10:08 PM »

thank you...


http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=call_signs_3&id=amateur&page=4



I can't find my old paperwork. I found a couple old letters from the FCC and ARRL (one was a violation..signal heard on 10.000 mhz, etc. Submit that ? hmmm)

BUT the actual paper licenses elude me..


Who might be available to help me get proof ?


The era is around 1980.

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N2EY
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 04:25:14 PM »

You can't get an old out-of-the-48-states callsign back as a vanity call unless your mailing address is in the corresponding area.

That does seem to be what 97.19 says, but it's not what the FCC's help page on former holder vanity apps says:

Quote from: FCC
For your primary station, you may request a call sign that was previously assigned to your primary, secondary, repeater, auxiliary link, control or space station. When so requesting for your primary station:

- You may request your former call sign even though it has been unassigned for less than two years. The two-year requirement does not apply to an otherwise eligible primary station if the call sign was previously assigned to a station of the requestor

- You do not have to hold a class of operator license required for the Group (A, B, C or D) for the call sign requested. A call sign request by a former holder may be from any Group in the sequential system.

- Your mailing address does not have to be in the Region designated in the sequential system for the call sign requested. A call sign requested by a former holder may be in any Region.

But what does "Region" mean in this context? I think it means that the number in your call doesn't have to match the geographic location.

97.19 specifically notes Alaska, Hawaii, and some islands' calls specifically as not available unless your mailing address is there.

OTOH, if a licensee moves, they don't have to change their call. The person who started this thread actually holds WL7WO, yet has a mailing address in CT. I assume that he moved from Alaska and kept the call.

For the record, a few years back I was able to document from the callbooks a former KH6 holder from the mid-60s, and the FCC re-issued him the old call. (They had previously denied the vanity app, as they had no proof he was a former holder.)

But what was his mailing address? They originally denied for lack of proof of former holder, not address.

As I recall, some years back FCC tightened up the rules on vanity calls and club calls to prevent "call collecting". They set down guidelines of what constitutes a "club" for the purposes of callsigns.

This was done, IIRC, because some folks noticed that there were individuals who were trustees for large numbers of club calls, all assigned to different clubs. In some cases the callsigns were from Hawaii, etc., but the trustees didn't live there or anywhere close by.

What was being done was not illegal at the time, because there were no rules specifically saying it couldn't be done. There was no definition of how many members a club needed to be a club, nor what its activities had to be, nor that a physical club station had to exist.

It may be that FCC would grant a former call from Hawaii or elsewhere to WL7WO if all the requirements were met. My interpretation of 97.19 is that they won't, but FCC's may be different.

But if they will, he will have to give up WL7WO to get it.

73 de Jim, N2EY

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KB1BZR
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 04:45:56 PM »

Interesting but confusing.


Yes. I am stuck in Connecticut now and I'm sick of every every every contact having to talk about Alaska.

well..you jerk..why not get a n1 Huh


I hate to give up a 2x2.


(idiot--get your extra)


BUT I thought about better calls I've had in the past...



I might try something but proof of old calls ??  Could it be just a print out of say info on   

http://www.vanityhq.com/


I'm not trying to eat up wonderful calls or hoard anything. Clubs ? ME/friends just ONE.




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W3HF
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 07:19:33 PM »

Rather than get mixed up in the quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes ...

1. "What does 'region' mean in this context?" They tell you where to find that answer: look at their page for sequential calls--that's the reference they give you. It lists Regions 1 through 13, specifically including 11 (Alaska), 12 (Caribbean Islands), and 13 (Pacific Islands). So it's directly applicable to the case in point.

2. The discrepancy I mentioned between Part 97 ( I used the words "That does seem...") and this FCC page's explanation is something I can't reconcile. I see what Part 97 says, and I see what their FAQ page says. I know what they've done, and it matches the FAQ. And your example may be the best explanation--since a licensee can retain a callsign when they move, they are also allowed to reclaim a callsign after they've moved. But I agree--I can't find it in the rules.

3. The other case I mentioned was a recently relicensed ham in the lower 48, who was successfully able to reclaim the KL7 (not KH6, sorry) 2x3 call he had held 47 years earlier. His original vanity app was denied because he asked for a Region 11 callsign and didn't have a Region 11 address. He reapplied as a former holder, included a Fall 62 callbook page as proof, and was issued the KL7 call.

4. Yes, WL7WO will have to give up that call to reclaim another one. But if he can prove he held the other call, the FCC will reissue it to him. I don't know if a VanityHQ printout is enough, but a callbook copy definitely is.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 01:15:22 PM by W3HF » Logged
KB1BZR
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Posts: 79




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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 10:00:51 PM »

Steve..I think it is ??


Can you help with a scan or 'paper' of an old callbook ??  1980 era ??


zz4----at----shepaug.net   (email)
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N2EY
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Posts: 3849




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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 03:04:01 AM »

To W3HF:

You've convinced me. Despite the apparent wording of 97.19, I think that if the proper application is filed, with documentation, the FCC will reissue the former call if it meets the not-assigned-within-2-years rule.

Thanks for clearing up a point of confusion.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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W3HF
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 03:22:01 AM »

To Jim N2EY -

I just wish the wording in 97.19 made it obvious. It wasn't until you pointed out the discrepancy that I realized that what seemed so clear in practice was anything but clear in the rules.

To WL7WO -

Yes, I can get you a copy of a callbook page to use as proof. Send me an email direct.

Steve
W3HF
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K4YZ
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 05:06:47 AM »

Interesting but confusing.


Yes. I am stuck in Connecticut now and I'm sick of every every every contact having to talk about Alaska.

well..you jerk..why not get a n1 Huh

     Why not get a 1-by-3 K or W call, Gary?

     W1GCM is available.  Nice sounding call if you ask me!  No ambiguity in the sound of the letters...Very robust and easy to understand.  Classic call, too!

     If you like CW at all, it's an easy call, too!

73

Steve, K4YZ
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