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Author Topic: PSDR 2.0.16 NOT a Winner  (Read 9882 times)
K0OD
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Posts: 2546




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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 08:29:21 AM »

"Imagine what PSDR could be like if he {simon brown} worked for Flexradio?"

Anyone wanna go with that discussion? Smiley

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N3EVL
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 12:21:49 PM »

"...Bringing up the question of just what sort of resources would be needed... My own take is that if you're going to run in the Windows platform AND do your signal processing on the PC, then you need some people with windows device driver/multimedia experience to make sure you play nice with all the Windows stuff..."

FWIW, based on what I remember reading on the Flex reflector, they outsourced the driver development to another company and, apparently, are still resolving issues in that area. 

In any event, diriver development being such an esoteric aspect of software development, it was probably a smart move to outsource rather than invest in that kind of in-house skill for what would likely be a one-off developement effort.

I'm glad HPSDR a) never embraced firewire and b) is moving away from USB to Ethernet where (apparently) the drivers are more mundane.


Pete, N3EVL

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N9RO
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 08:47:36 PM »

When I see a pig fly across my back yard I will begin looking for Deep Impact.  Flex may have to move to Linux just so they have something new to try and hide behind.  We are all now seeing just how good their new development process is working. 
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Real techies don't use knobs.
N3EVL
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2010, 06:10:41 AM »

"...When I see a pig fly across my back yard I will begin looking for Deep Impact.  Flex may have to move to Linux just so they have something new to try and hide behind..."

Are you implying that "Deep Impact" will be a Linux-only offering? If so, I think this is incorrect.  With Flex's dependence on the PC as part of their overall system and the de facto dominance of Windows in the marker place, they cannot possibly restrict themselves as you appear to imply.  Suggesting that they would do so as some sort of smoke screen is beyond bizarre.


"...We are all now seeing just how good their new development process is working..."

I suspect we are seeing a small company going through growing pains as it transitions from its initial 'Experimental/hobbyist' roots and customer base to a broader market.  No doubt mistakes have and will be made along the way but I for one would commend Flex for recognizing this change in their market and attempting to put a plan in place to accommodate this change.  While experiences with 2.0.x may not have been as positive as all would have hoped both in terms of timing of releases (especially with regard to the 1500 and having to use beta s/w) and overall software quality, I think it is premature to write off their development process. 

I have no inside knowledge on how Flex is approaching this transition (nor do I think does anyone else contributing to this forum) but can appreciate the technical and business difficulties involved and am prepared to cut them some slack - a concept that seems to have escaped the grasp of this thread and this forum generally!
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W6RMK
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Posts: 650




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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2010, 08:17:37 AM »

"True Flexers seem to believe the Deep Impact project is going to be the salvation of PSDR. They think running software on Linux is going to be better."
DI, if it ever gets done, would solve a lot of the problems because the architecture separates the signal processing from the UI.  I don't think Linux, per se, makes much difference.  Frank and Bob, who are/were developing the dttsp core for DI are big Linux fans, so that's where that's coming from.  I think they'll still have problems with the Windows stuff, as long as they're trying to do multi-platform real time programming.  The performance needs  (millisecond scale sync) for something like PC based DSP pretty much push you to needing to interact with the low level details of the OS, and that's counter to platform independence.

"I would like to see a company like RF Space or Microtelecom of Perseus fame develop a transceiver instead of just SDR receivers."
there are significant regulatory burdens once you start venturing into the "transmitter" world. In the receiver world, you just have to worry about the Part 15 cellular blocking sorts of rules.

"...Simon Brown..."
Simon has done great stuff with HRD and similar products, but (correct me if I'm wrong), he's a UI and interface guy, not a DSP guy.   You need a Simon to do a good job on the user facing part, but you also need those windows driver developers.

"FWIW, based on what I remember reading on the Flex reflector, they outsourced the driver development to another company and, apparently, are still resolving issues in that area.

In any event, diriver development being such an esoteric aspect of software development, it was probably a smart move to outsource rather than invest in that kind of in-house skill for what would likely be a one-off developement effort."

the driver development I'm talking about here isn't some mundane issue of making Firewire work.  I've used "driver" as a shorthand for "low level performance oriented code tightly coupled to the OS".. What Flex (or anyone) is up against is comparable to writing a new audio/video codec for the multimedia subsystem.. it has to have bounded latency, interact with all the real-time hooks in the kernel, etc. 

Sure you could outsource it, but that would require writing a detailed specification for what you wanted built, which would probably take longer and be more expensive.  Given this is a smallish development effort, I think it would be more efficient to have your developers in-house so you can iterate the interfaces as needed.

"I suspect we are seeing a small company going through growing pains as it transitions from its initial 'Experimental/hobbyist' roots and customer base to a broader market...." 

I think you're right..

"..cut them some slack"..

I think that people who have been flexing for a while have heard the "we're changing our approach, and things will get better, soon" story a few times now. 
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RUSS324
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Posts: 29




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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2010, 04:20:03 PM »

OK folks. I just have to throw my 2 cents worth in here. I have had my Flex 5000A with 2nd reciever option since Feburary. I have had 0. Say that again. 0 problems with the radio or software. I have used the radio for general rag chewing, for casual DX chasing, and contesting. Both CW and SSB. I am not a genius by any means. I did my research prior to purchasing my radio. I already had a good quad-core computer and a nicely appointed shack. After recieving my radio I set it up according to the instructions. I purchased the additional digital software and watched the videos of how to set up the virtual ports etc. Everthing set up and worked fine. I will admit I am not concerned in the finer points of what ANY of my 5 HF rigs will do. I want to operate and enjoy them. I like all 5 rigs but the Flex is by far my best radio. It is not for everybody, there is a learning curve. A lot of problems seem to be computer related. Is the Flex or any other radio perfect. No. What fun would that be. Just my 2 cents. I really enjoy the hobby and just yesterday I put up my DX engineering 5 band hex beam antenna. Now I should have it on the air thanksgiving day. I am excited and I am sure that now I will be using the 2nd reciever and deversity recieve on my Flex. Russ K8QF.
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KC9LGS
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Posts: 4




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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2010, 11:37:17 PM »

Hello Stan,

I read your comment here on eHam.net. I am somewhat of a newbie to ham radio.

I have Flex-1500 it sounds like you have a 1500 and/or a 5000?

Anyhow I made the fatal mistake of upgrading to PSDR 2.0.16 !

And now I am burning in Flex hell ! Just look at the timestamp on my message.

Could you be so kind as to tell me where you found the firmware to go back to PSDR v2.08 for the 1500 ?

They don't have firmware files on their website (which I think is nuts).

Thank you in advance.

Rob

KC9LGS
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NO5J
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Posts: 14




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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2010, 11:07:29 AM »

Rob
Did you get the driver problem solved yet. I dont have the 1500. I do have the 5000a and a 1000 though. On flexradios download site I found ....

FLEX-1500 Driver Patch Kit for PowerSDR v2.0.16, rev E.
This file is to be used only to repair a failed installation of the FLEX-1500 USB driver included in the PowerSDR v2.0.16 software installation.

That Might be the fix. But I don't Know for sure and can't recommend you use it without more information, about what OS your using, what may have been done right or wrong when 2.0.16 was installed, what youve tried so far that hasn't worked etc etc. I wouldnt't want to make the problem worse.

The one thing I do recommend is that before installing and running any beta release that you should subscribe to the FlexEdge mailing list where these issues get activelly discussed. While Tim E. has been portrayed as some sort of goon/thug in the way he moderates the list, He does go out of his way to help Flex owners that are having trouble. As far as how he moderates the list, thats his job, he takes it seriously. As with any collection of enthusiasts some are Fanboys, Some are clueless some are happy some are upset some think its all a grand conspiracy If you can't get help from the mailing list then I'd recommend calling Flexradio and talking to Dudley. I'm sure he can Fix it.

Jay NO5J
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KC9LGS
Member

Posts: 4




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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2010, 02:20:46 PM »

Hello Jay & Stan,
 
I went to hell and back till 3:00am trying to find where Flex put my 1500's v2.08 firmware so I could revert to v2.08. I searched every possible creative permutations of Flex's support engine and web. And of course I found this blog in the process . Well Dudley Do Right did have the answer. The darn firmware/program rollback is hiding in sub-directories under:
 
C:\Program Files\FlexRadio Systems\PowerSDR v2.0.16\1500 Driver32\RollBack32.exe.
 
 Hidden in plain sight! However, no quick guide, readme doc or user manuals reveals this simple truth.
 
But wait valuable knowledge has been gleaned from this!
 
My Flex 1500 ran like a charm on a cheap Acer Wal-Mart 225.00 lightweight laptop running Windows 7 Starter version. I could send or receive SSTV, PSK31 and so on..
 
I could listen to nets, SWL or AM broadcasts while working on heavy CPU demanding CAD software and/or browse the web while SDR was running in the background.
 
However, when loading v2.0.16 things went to hell in a jiffy!
 
Knowledge to be gleaned ? (answers in the form of questions)
 
How could this Flex USB improvement lead to such overhead CPU demand that the slightest operation like hitting "Start Menu" or opening "My Computer" commence the Flex audio into popping & cracking. Not only that - as Windows/Norton does one of it's many background ops the Flex popped cracked snapped in the audio.

So how with v2.08, running heavy cpu ops like CAD could go on with Flex functioning fairly well, but with v2.0.16 just idling the computer would create annoying audio pops and crackles ? A quantum leap backwards in performance !

But there's a bigger issue here that concerns me.
 
When we zoom out to look at the big picture of PowerSDR. My old PowerSDR version(s) with Tony Parks Ensemble RX/TX (and other i570 apps) were supported in the past. Whereas now the 2.08 and above only has the token SoftRock 40 as being supported.
 
Why was support for Tony's Ensemble taken away ? Do they fear Tony's Ensemble TX/RX for some reason ?
 
Before PowerSDR seemed to be some open ended GNU software but v2.08 and beyond has all manner of copyrights on the startup screen now ?
 
Wasn't some Greek guy (Christos Nikolaou SV1EIA) the author of PowerSDR ?
 
Have author's changed hands for some commercial lockdown reason ? If so could this be the reason for degradation in what's to be an upgrade ? New owners / new programmers ?
 
Sorry to be so bewildered by it all. I am but a newbie to Amateur Radio.
 
Thank You Jay an Stan for your help
 
Rob
KC9LGS
 
 
(P.S. the ramblings of someone who hasn't slept all night).
 
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NO5J
Member

Posts: 14




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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2010, 03:07:28 PM »

Rob
Thanks for wasting my time  I'll stick to my recomendation that you subscribe to flexradio@flexradio.biz and flexedge@flexradio.biz ask about those conspiracys there. the copyright and license requirements haven't changed We can get the dated source from Flex for PowerSDR. I've seen the name and callsign of (Christos Nikolaou SV1EIA) before but havent seen him claim to have written PowerSDR originally I've seen he's taken some of thier source and relerelease it with his modifications but never has he claimed to be the author of the source. Got any sourcecode (dated) that backs that claim. it's copyrighted with the Gnu General Public License which requires anyone that modifies and then redistributes the software must abide by its terms so he should have his source available That should settle that issue.
Im sorry Rob I was trying to help but I dont have time to engage in any further Ranting or misinformation. The drivers are available on flex's website. the source for any version of powerSDR including the original version is available by email request from Flex. your entitled to your opinions but not your own facts. BTW Im not in the chior but I have been seen attending services

Oh and have a nice day!


Jay-NO5J
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RUSS324
Member

Posts: 29




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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2010, 03:15:22 PM »

Wow Stan. I don't use FM. So no issue for me. My radio does what I use it for so I am happy. I am sorry that you are not. I use the CWX keyboard for CW as I am disabled. I just put a space in all my macros as the first digit sent. I have had no problems or complaint from CW DX contacts. I have used it in contests. Just last weekend I worked the November Sweepstakes and everything worked perfect. I was running a KW for the contest. I tested my Hex Beam on the air barefoot today and everthing checks out ok. So I am looking forward to the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.
Just as a side not. Stan do not put words in my mouth or say that I should work for Flex. That is un called for on your part. We can agree to disagree and do it as gentlemen. As i stated my 2 cents worth was that my radio works great for what I use it for and expect it to do. Each and every person has their own expectations. Have a great holiday. Russ K8QF.
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KC9LGS
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Posts: 4




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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2010, 03:34:06 PM »

Hi Jay,
Sorry I got you hot under the collar. I was looking for answers. If you read carefully I am admitting I am a stupid newbie. I really had very little sleep last night. I am trying not to sleep now so I can get back on cycle. Underneath your wrath I hear the sense of your words and I will take it to heart.

I do like my Flex a lot that's why I got a little hyper when it was taken away from me in the form of non-function.

take care
Rob
73's


KC9LGSKC9LGS
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NO5J
Member

Posts: 14




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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »

Rob
No apolgies neccessary. In Fact I apologise to you. My frantic googling about SV1EIA was actually educational. I hadn't been keeping up with sdr-IQ or the work being done with the softrocks. I'd expect their mut be someway to reintegrate support for the softrocks and others
But I'd rather Flex work on PowerSDR for their own hardware first. I don't own a softrock I'd feel differently if I did. And sorry it I offend anyone with this nasty wish but here goes anyway.

To All that read this.
Have a nice Thanksgiving and a Fine Tomorrow!

Jay-NO5J
PS(I remember now! Feed not the Trolls for they do enjoy their meals.)
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KC9LGS
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Posts: 4




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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 07:51:55 PM »

Hi Jay

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

take care &73's

Rob
KC9LGS
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