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Author Topic: Tower restrictions, any attorneys or experienced hams? Need help  (Read 62433 times)
KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2010, 06:44:31 AM »

Well, it just goes to prove that you can fight city hall, if you can embarrass them in to doing the right thing, but it is a long shotGrin

Now the question is, how much is the permit and what are the restrictions going to be? Since they were forced into it and they really didn't want any antenna towers in the township, it will be interesting to hear what they come up with.  Undecided
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N2EY
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Posts: 3833




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« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2010, 01:43:32 PM »

WOO-HOO! Congrats! Great news!

A couple of suggestions:

1) Get together all the documentation you can for the permit. Tower specs, foundation requirements, etc. Pictures of the site, etc. Even if they're not required, they're good to have, in order to show you've considered all the angles.

2) Start figuring out the details of how the tower will be put up once the permit is in hand. I don't know how much of the work you can do yourself (probably not much) but you need to be the organizer, or find one. As an electrician you know what many of the requirements are, but for a tower installation you're more of a general contractor, dealing with all the various issues.

3) Think about what sort of antennas you will put up and how they will be maintained. Also vandalism-, varmint- and weather-proofing. Climbing guards around the base of the tower? Fence? Security lighting?

4) It's important not to lose momentum. You don't want to rush, and the weather will hold off serious work for a couple months, but April will be here before you know it. If raising the tower takes too long, some folks may start re-thinking the whole thing.

73 es GL de Jim, N2EY
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KI4SDY
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« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2010, 05:26:11 PM »

Don't give them any more information than you have to!  Wink
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AA2HA
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Posts: 16




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« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2011, 11:38:02 AM »

Well, I shouldn't have counted my chickens before they were hatched. Today I finally heard from the township. They are NOT issuing me a zoning permit (after assuring me they would).
 They now state the MAY issue ma a conditional use permit) which involves about 25 hoops of fire to jump through, and a few thousand dollars.
 I've decided to just put the tower up anyway. I'm not sure what they can do to me, but as I see it, I have state and federal regulation on my side. Let THEM bring ME to court. How discouraging this has been. After being told (by the township attorney) that he and the board agreed to issue my permit, I sold most of my possessions, including my car to buy all the necessary equipment and antennas, etc. for the tower. Now we're back to square 1.
  Cry
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KC1BUD
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Posts: 8




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« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2011, 12:25:23 PM »

Is it possible to turn one of the live trees into the tower? If the only thing above the canopy is the top of the vertical, how they going to know? Just a thought.
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KF4BAE
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Posts: 7




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« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2011, 12:21:00 PM »

That's pretty hard core to sell your car to buy a tower.  Good luck.
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2011, 10:13:44 PM »

If you had followed my advice you would not be in this situation now. Things ended up just like I said they would. I know government bureaucracies and how they work. Now I am going to give you some more good advise. Hopefully, you will listen.  Undecided

What can they do to you if you put up the tower without a permit? The township will notify you that you are in violation and they will have a hearing. If you attend, and they will give you 48 hours to come into compliance. If you don't attend, they will mail you a notice of their decision. If you don't come into compliance, they will fine you anywhere from $35.00 to 150.00 per day, depending on what they feel like. They will put a lien on your house for the fines and if you sell it, the fines will have to be paid first. In some states (probably yours), they can condemn your house, evict you and sell it for the fines. You will be living on the street, homeless. You don't even have a car to live in now. This is not a good option. Think of your family!  Cry

At this point, you need to wait about year and a half before you put up anything they can see that will irritate them. By that time, they will be tired of checking. Use that period to study different stealth antenna systems that accomplish about same thing as a tower. Sell the tower. Buy or build some good stealth antenna systems and a powerful linear (if you feel like you need it). I don't have a tower or big linear and I talk all over the world QRP. Hone your antenna construction skills and you will make plenty of contacts!  Grin

If you are still determined to put up a tower some day, sell the house and buy a place in the country with more land and fewer restrictions. Check the area regulations before you buy!  Wink

« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 07:32:07 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
W4TQ
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Posts: 40




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« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2011, 04:01:35 AM »

I agree with KI4SDY about considering the possibility of alternative antenna systems.  Back in the 90's I had an 80' tower with a nice Force Tribander--it worked great.  I lost interest in radio for a few years and took the tower down. 

When I returned to radio three years ago, I decided to put up some homebrew verticals.  I now have four verticals that cover 160 through 10 meters, and am just four contacts shy on 10 meters of DXCC on seven bands.  It will take a few years of work on 160 to get all nine bands DXCC.  I use an amplifier about 30% of the time.

One interesting thing.  I painted two of the verticals a light brown color (Adobe Brown Behr Stain from Home Depot), and they are VERY difficult to see against the trees (even though I'm only 60 feet away, and I know exactly where they are, sometimes I can't find them).  These two painted verticals are for 15 and 20 meters, and each have four elevated radials which slope down at 45 degrees.  They are constructed with those fiberglass and aluminum surplus poles that you see at hamfests (very cheap).  I use the fiberglass sections for the lower insulated part, and aluminum sections for the upper part.  I painted the entire antennas when complete, but the purpose was to protect the fiberglass from sun damage.

Good luck & 73,
Dan - W4TQ
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W3WN
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2011, 09:00:34 AM »

Tim,

Have you contacted Mike Lazaroff K3AIR?  mlazaroff at murrinlaw dot com.

Although he's on the other side of the state, he has had tremendous success with antenna and tower issues -- just ask Chuck W3YNI.

Get the straight scoop from the attorney. 

73
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KB1VCZ
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Posts: 30




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« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2011, 12:16:17 PM »

Wow, this thread has more plot twists than a Hitchcock film.

I hope I never have to deal with this kind of BS.
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2011, 07:25:30 PM »

Simple. Never ask for a permit! Wink
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KB1NXE
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Posts: 296




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« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2011, 08:45:32 AM »

Sometimes, a permit may not be necessary.  The best answer is know the rules, laws and regulations.  The town I have does not require a permit for any construction less than $3500.  Putting up a used 65' tower can certainly be done for less than $3500.  The antennas and other items on the tower are considered no different than the furniture you'd place in a room, so that does not add into the cost factoring.

I'd follow the advise from W3WN.  Once the township hears from a 'lawyer', then they may need to contemplate their position and if they'd like to bring it to court (with the outlay of cash for those costs).  He might make a call or write a letter for nothing to help out in this circumstance.  Also, was the decision of allowing you to have the tower back in the December meeting written into the meeting minutes?  If so, you would certainly have additional leverage as they published those minutes and made them part of the public record. 
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N0LKK
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Posts: 6




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« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2011, 09:09:00 PM »

 I couldn't find a post that indicated that issue was resolve, and the last post that I see dated 4/29/11 suggests it hasn't.
 In it hasn't this would be what I'd do. Try to sell the tower at hand. Use the proceeds to construct a monopole of the same height that could be layed down. In the event they try to bust you on construction permit issues. Simply lay it down, if the push further, disassemble it to where it can't be raised back up. Nothing that can be done  within 24 hours, with help.

Those commentators whose comments made this appear to be a tough crowd, probably not so tough face to face, even if they are facing a disable person like you, and I.

 Recently this was an issue in the small town I live near. An amateur set to move here got a hint he may have trouble putting up his tower, and I was aware of that, when I heard through the grapevine the city manger would deffer to the local CATV in making a decision. I made a visit the next day tell him about the FCC PRB-1 ruling, and Kansas legislation that reinforces that ruling. I was told he didn't care about those, and would give issue a construction permit for anything he thought could cause TV interference. His rational being he would rather have 1 or 2 persons angry with him , than an entire neighborhood, town. I requested to be put on the city council agenda so I could give the council an overview of amateur  radio, and it's local history. I decided to attend the council meetings until that time to insure nothing was snuck through.  At the first one I attended I was ask to speak as it was becoming a time critical thing for the new couple moving to town. To my surprise the city clerk had an entirely different attitude. This particular issue was resolved satisfactory, but we will have to go through the same the next time it comes up I'm sure. I do hope your issue has been resolve to your liking.
Doug
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AB4D
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Posts: 296


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« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2012, 06:24:39 PM »

In finality, as others were wondering about the conclusion to this saga.  I read the following information on another site posted by the original author in regard to his tower situation.  "To make a long story short, I am installing a 100' Amateur radio tower at my home."  "It took 23 months, several battles, and more money than I wish to think about to finally get the permit for the tower."

So despite posturing by some, that he would never get his tower approved, and he must sell his home and move.  It was pleasing to read that he followed the rules, got his tower approved, and did not resort to "just putting it up."  It appears he even legally raised the height to 100 feet as well.

Congrats to Tim, AA2HA.

73
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W8JI
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« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 09:03:28 AM »

WOO-HOO! Congrats! Great news!

A couple of suggestions:

1) Get together all the documentation you can for the permit. Tower specs, foundation requirements, etc. Pictures of the site, etc. Even if they're not required, they're good to have, in order to show you've considered all the angles.

2) Start figuring out the details of how the tower will be put up once the permit is in hand. I don't know how much of the work you can do yourself (probably not much) but you need to be the organizer, or find one. As an electrician you know what many of the requirements are, but for a tower installation you're more of a general contractor, dealing with all the various issues.

3) Think about what sort of antennas you will put up and how they will be maintained. Also vandalism-, varmint- and weather-proofing. Climbing guards around the base of the tower? Fence? Security lighting?

4) It's important not to lose momentum. You don't want to rush, and the weather will hold off serious work for a couple months, but April will be here before you know it. If raising the tower takes too long, some folks may start re-thinking the whole thing.

73 es GL de Jim, N2EY

This is old and stale, but I see someone else reactivated it, so I wanted to comment on the advice above......


NEVER EVER give more than they ask for, and especially NEVER point out things that might be problems. NEVER.

Always supply exactly what they need, and the VERY MINIMUM they ask for. The only thing to ever fight is what they decide is a problem. Offering things not asked for will often create problems they never even thought of.

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