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Author Topic: Government grant money need For American Ham radio manufactures  (Read 12536 times)
N5RWJ
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« on: December 22, 2010, 12:57:18 PM »

Without American radio or other related manufactures ,we may not have communication gear to support our nation in emergencies and attacks from belligerents, some think EMP will likely knock out most of our Ham gear and electric power in an attack, or attacks on Japan or elsewhere. I don't think we will get replacement  HAM gear or parts from overseas quickly ( DO YOU )? Is it time for American Ham manufactures to get research and development  grant money from our Government to help protect "WE The People". HAVE YOUR SAY

« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 12:04:05 PM by charles t lester » Logged
W3JKS
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 02:48:13 PM »

We've had enough government giveaways.  We need to keep money in the consumer's pockets.  The USG is notoriously inefficient when you compare the $$ appropriated vs the $$ which makes it to the end user.

The Dept of Hopeless Security is an excellent example.  Most of the money is sucked up into endless studies conducted by leeches inside the DC Beltway.  Very little makes it out to the State level, and even less after they take their cut and drop a few pennies into the the city/local level.

If you want to do something positive for Made-in-America, take away all of the subsidies accrued by companies who off-shore their R&D, capital and manufacturing. 

john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL
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LA9XSA
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 03:24:33 PM »

EMP hardened equipment doesn't necessarily need to be domestically made. You might also store regular non-resistant backup equipment in EMP proof containers, and take it out after the event has destroyed the equipment which was in use. That goes for all types of radio gear. Right?

When speaking about amateur (ham) gear specifically, this is the service which is least vulnerable to a lack of domestic production, I would think. Experimentation and modification is at the heart of the service, and self-builds and modification of old commercial and military gear is still going strong, even though factory made amateur transceivers have become the norm. Every licensed ham is a potential radio maker or repairer.

Since the amateur service serves as an auxiliary/backup mode of communication, we should be more worried about who's making our cell phones and public service radios than who's making our ham gear.

I don't think government should be spending money to keep otherwise unprofitable amateur radio production afloat - if that's what you mean by your post - but R&D money can certainly be distributed to benefit both ham radio and other radio services. A technology invented in ham radio can benefit cell phone, public service and military radios, and the other way around. I doubt it'll be seen as a good idea to earmark R&D funds to "ham-only" projects, and I think that would also go against the spirit of ham radio.
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N5RWJ
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2010, 12:12:59 PM »

Without American radio or other related manufactures ,we may not have communication gear to support our nation in emergencies and attacks from belligerents, some think EMP will likely knock out most of our Ham gear and electric power in an attack, or attacks on Japan or elsewhere. I don't think we will get replacement  HAM gear or parts from overseas quickly ( DO YOU )? Is it time for American Ham manufactures to get research and development  grant money from our Government to help protect "WE The People". HAVE YOUR SAY

When our Gov, can give grant money to find out why pig's stink. Why not give  R&D funds to Ham manufactures, the Japanese do.
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K6AER
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 09:48:32 PM »

Give me a break.

The last thing the general public needs in an emergency is a bunch of overweight duffers in orange vests all yelling into a HT, "can you hear me now". From time to time some one with ham gear will perform a public service but for that matter our track record is no better than truckers with CB sets.

Hams cannot handle the large amount of digital traffic necessary in an emergency. We have poor interagency skills and for the most part are not available in large scale when the need arises. Ask any ARES responder their exact function with the city government and emergency services and they can't tell you.

One cell phone channel can handle more data than 100 repeaters. Fifty years ago ham equipment we a viable option but our traffic capacity has remained unchanged.

Technology has moved on.

After Hurricane Katrina left town the cell phone companies had 80% of the cell system back on line in New Orleans by the end of the eight day.


The only purpose Ham radio serves in an emergency is for human interest stories on the 5 O'clock news.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 12:30:10 PM by Michael S. Higgins » Logged
N5RWJ
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 10:39:52 AM »

Give me a break.

The last thing the general public needs in an emergency is a bunch of overweight duffers in orange vests all yelling into a HT, "can you hear me now". From time to time some one with ham gear will perform a public service but for that matter our track record is no better than truckers with CB sets.

Hams cannot handle the large amount of digital traffic necessary in an emergency. We have poor interagency skills and for the most part are not available in large scale when the need arises. Ask any ARES responder their exact function with the city government and emergency services and they can't tell you.

One cell phone channel can handle more data than 100 repeaters. Fifty years ago ham equipment we a viable option but our traffic capacity has remained unchanged.

Technology has moved on.

After Hurricane Katrina left town the cell phone companies had 80% of the cell system back on line in New Orleans by the end of the eight day.


The only purpose Ham radio serves in an emergency is for human interest stories on the 5 O'clock news.
                  Other than attacking ham operators working an emergency,or you for grant R&D money for Ham manufactures?
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N2EY
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 01:30:34 PM »

Without American radio or other related manufactures ,we may not have communication gear to support our nation in emergencies and attacks from belligerents, some think EMP will likely knock out most of our Ham gear and electric power in an attack, or attacks on Japan or elsewhere. I don't think we will get replacement  HAM gear or parts from overseas quickly ( DO YOU )? Is it time for American Ham manufactures to get research and development  grant money from our Government to help protect "WE The People". HAVE YOUR SAY



You've identified the problem but not the solution.

First, there aren't that many American electronics manufacturers any more. That's because of the past 30+ years of free-trade policies.

Second, R&D money won't make any difference if the stuff is not made here. Which it won't be if all that is done is to hand out R&D money.

Third, it's not just the finished product but the parts which are needed. What has to happen is for the entire US electronics industry to grow, from the ground up.

Think about what it would take for that to happen. It would be a lot more than some grant money here and there.

Are you willing to pay the price?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N5RWJ
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2010, 08:16:55 PM »

Well their it is , were all doomed!
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W3DBB
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 07:08:31 AM »

Please, no more public assistance for multimillionaires. Methinks the 'S' in USA stands for 'Subsidies'. Subsidies are bad news. The thrust of the educational system and business is on learning how to game the system to receive them. Obtaining a classical education and engaging in honorable business practices are anachronisms.

W3JKS description of the big picture is short and to the point. N2EY nicely summarizes where our domestic electronics manufacturing industry is today.

We may be doomed, but solutions to immense problems require a unified national effort. There is too much corruption now and you can't get 60% of our elite politicos to agree on anything other than bankrupting the nation for each others favorite pork projects. The fact that we don't domestically manufacture VHF FM transceivers for radio amateurs is but one of the innumerable symptoms of our decline. We are circling the drain.

Radio amateurs, in any event, were never going to have much to do with real emergency communications, despite endless promotions to the contrary. Emergency communications services funded by taxpayers are ubiquitous for the time being, as well as having redundant capabilities.

 
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N5RWJ
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011, 12:28:27 PM »

Please, no more public assistance for multimillionaires. Methinks the 'S' in USA stands for 'Subsidies'. Subsidies are bad news. The thrust of the educational system and business is on learning how to game the system to receive them. Obtaining a classical education and engaging in honorable business practices are anachronisms.

W3JKS description of the big picture is short and to the point. N2EY nicely summarizes where our domestic electronics manufacturing industry is today.

We may be doomed, but solutions to immense problems require a unified national effort. There is too much corruption now and you can't get 60% of our elite politicos to agree on anything other than bankrupting the nation for each others favorite pork projects. The fact that we don't domestically manufacture VHF FM transceivers for radio amateurs is but one of the innumerable symptoms of our decline. We are circling the drain.

Radio amateurs, in any event, were never going to have much to do with real emergency communications, despite endless promotions to the contrary. Emergency communications services funded by taxpayers are ubiquitous for the time being, as well as having redundant capabilities.

 
I would thank that ham operators with their radios would be needed in world war 3 , when it comes to us here in America!
 I also think  Government  grant funds  to secure the Adaption of SDR standards and to over view SDR technology in adaptive radio, cognitive radio and intelligentive SDR for American manufactures.
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N2EY
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 01:42:10 PM »

I would thank that ham operators with their radios would be needed in world war 3 , when it comes to us here in America!

Maybe. But that's not really the point.

The point is that if government grant money is given for R&D, it won't mean we see more American-made ham rigs. So we'll be as dependent on imports as ever.

For too many years there's been a mindset in the USA which says that we can have prosperity, freedom and independence without strong domestic manufacturing and other industries. It's becoming clear that it just doesn't work that way.

I also think  Government  grant funds  to secure the Adaption of SDR standards and to over view SDR technology in adaptive radio, cognitive radio and intelligentive SDR for American manufactures.

Why would American manufacturers need that? What purpose would it really serve?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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W3JKS
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 03:18:40 PM »

Here's a clue for you -- the US Government has ALREADY spent way more money than they should have on SDR -- it's called the Joint Tactical Radio System (JTRS).

Look it up.  And look at how many ZEROES are in the appropriations.  It is obscene. 

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL
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K7RBW
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 10:16:10 PM »

Aren't Hams supposed to be able to make their own radios out of spare parts?

If all our high-tech, microprocessor-controlled radios get toasted by an EMP, couldn't amateur radio operators just dig through their junk box and put together a transmitter and receiver? Heck, I did that when I was 12.

Worst case scenario: make a spark-gap transmitter and crytal receiver.

Not the most efficient means of communication but it's better than nothing.
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N2EY
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 05:33:32 AM »

Aren't Hams supposed to be able to make their own radios out of spare parts?

Some of us can - and do.

If all our high-tech, microprocessor-controlled radios get toasted by an EMP, couldn't amateur radio operators just dig through their junk box and put together a transmitter and receiver? Heck, I did that when I was 12.

But could you do it today?

Seriously...how many hams reading this could put together a complete station from parts and information they have on hand?

Worst case scenario: make a spark-gap transmitter and crytal receiver.

Not the most efficient means of communication but it's better than nothing.

How many hams could do that and actually get it to work?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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W6RMK
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 08:56:06 AM »

the value of hams, in an emergency, is not that they happen to have radios that may or may not interoperate with other comm systems.  It's that a lot of hams are good at improvising, because they keep their 20 year old radios limping along, and would be willing to suggest and help with getting damaged infrastructure going again, without needing a carefully reviewed procedure and paperwork to do it.  Hams aren't unique here.. there are other avocations and professions which encourage some amount of improvisation, but hams do have experience using unreliable equipment in less than ideal situations with unreliable communications paths.  Someone who has waited for the band to open or had it close in the middle of a QSO isn't likely to freak out "the comm path is down, we're all gonna die".

The ham who saves the day will be the guy or gal who said, "if we cut the coax here, and then go up on the roof and pull it up, we can drop it over the outside of the building and run it in the window to the room where the electricity is still on and then I can probably splice in the remaining end, as long as we can twist the wires and put some masking tape on for insulation."
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