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Author Topic: Dstar and Emcomms  (Read 17857 times)
WG8Z
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Posts: 181




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« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2011, 07:15:03 PM »

Except for crappy digital audio and R2D2 D-star does nothing I wasn't doing before it hit the market......
Put in a 600mhz processor,512 mhz ram, a full QWERTY keyboard,usb port for a printer,bluetooth,wi-fi and lets not get too greedy  say 220mhz and maybe  6m thru 160m and ya might have something...... D-star technology was old hat by the time it got FCC approval....Another instance of ICOM milking a dead horse.
73
Greg
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KT4WO
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Posts: 139


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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 07:26:10 AM »

"That whole "the codec is too costly" is simply NOT true. "

Please provide a link where I can buy the AMBE chip for 25 bucks.(hmmmmm...lol)


I went to that site and cannot find it.

KT4WO

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W3JKS
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Posts: 197


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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2011, 10:24:48 AM »

1.  Go to the web site
2.  Create an account
3.  Enter the storefront
4.  Go to the products section, pulldown the codec chip
5.  Place it in your cart
6.  Look in your cart -- last I checked, it was 25 EUROdollars not US dollars

I admit, the site is not the easiest I've ever navigated, but I don't make this stuff up.  I'm building an Icom-less 70cm D-Star repeater at the moment using one of Fred's boards.

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5810




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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 09:17:41 AM »

If I'm not mistaken, Icom still uses some of its own proprietary software and hardware.  Even if you can build your repeater, chances are that it will not completely interface with the Icom D-Star systems.
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W3JKS
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2011, 05:27:08 AM »

You are mistaken.  Join the yahoo groups and do the reading.  D-Star is showing signs of outgrowing the original Icom implementation through amateur-led reverse engineering and extensions such as a multi-trust based upon the IRC protocol.  Very interesting.

Here is the status of the various efforts as of January (thanks to NS7C for creating this table!):  http://www.armymars.net/D-Star_Support_Matrix.pdf

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 05:45:17 AM by W3JKS » Logged
KG4RUL
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2011, 11:02:03 AM »

You are mistaken.  Join the yahoo groups and do the reading.  D-Star is showing signs of outgrowing the original Icom implementation through amateur-led reverse engineering and extensions such as a multi-trust based upon the IRC protocol.  Very interesting.

Here is the status of the various efforts as of January (thanks to NS7C for creating this table!):  http://www.armymars.net/D-Star_Support_Matrix.pdf

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL

What I see is a list of projects to interface to the internet (read that as FRAGILE infrastructure).  Just the environment you need for EMCOMM.

Where are the actual radios??
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W3JKS
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2011, 12:44:41 PM »

If you go to the dutch-star.eu website, you can see what Fred has on the drawing boards at this point.  Will they come to fruition?  I don't know.  Although I think that it is very possible in the near-future that someone will develop an add-on for an existing 9600-bps capable radio along the lines of Kenwood's RC-210. 

I'm a little surprised that this hasn't occurred to Kenwood quite honestly.

As far as the Internet being fragile, the Internet is not a requirement if someone is willing and able to spend the $$ to build something like a fiber/microwave ring and create a server to host the apps.  No different than the public safety network infrastructure really.

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL


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K5LXP
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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2011, 07:40:21 AM »

Posted by: W3JKS

> No different than the public safety network infrastructure really.

That's been my objection to DStar as an emcomm platform all along.  It's a wireless IP solution waiting for the right problem to come along.


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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WZ3O
Member

Posts: 43




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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2011, 08:49:49 AM »

Posted by: W3JKS

> No different than the public safety network infrastructure really.

That's been my objection to DStar as an emcomm platform all along.  It's a wireless IP solution waiting for the right problem to come along.


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

Here, here..
Dstar, IMHO, is another facet of Hamdom that, while I'm sure can be fun & has it's place & use; I do not feel Emcomms is one of them.
1st: it requires Hams to pay for a "dedicated" "rig/dongle/Dvap, etal..."..read $$$...
2nd: it requires a fair bit of "vodoo" to set up..
3rd: too many "links in the chain" to fail, your digital rig with all it's programming, a Dstar repeater, controller, Inet gateway & the Dstar backbone internet link.....
4th: in some instances you need a "secret handshake" just to make it work....

Don't get me wrong, while I feel it is a "modern; version of Echolink, analog vs digital & it's a technological "marvel" that has a reasonable "infrastructure" & # of users, it's not "common place or simple enough" to be considered using in an EMERGENCY!!!!

OBTW, I have a strong backgroung in computers & 'technology" & there is a famous axiom widely used, KISS!!!! (Keep It Simple Stupid, Keep It Short & Simple....). A great many Great people adhere to this daily when "creating". So, we have HF, V/U simplex & repeaters, Digi modes (I'm sure I'm missing some) for Emcomm now, why add another tangent to the equation...

KISS.... critical with the # of Hams, skill levels, equipment, training,,,etc that would be "needed" in an Emcomm EMERGENCY...adding to the "confusion" would not be beneficial...again these are MY OPINIONS <with a smattering of fact tossed in for good measure  Roll Eyes Tongue > & did I mention KISS <no not the rock band  Wink >.

Wow, there goes my morning... Tongue

I've heard opinions are like an certain anatomical part, everyone has one, some are just "prettier" than others....So I'm sure the "debate" will go on, "proponents vs opponents".... each "side" "armed" with suppositions & feelings.... & hell maybe a few actual facts or cases where "X & Y" performed better than "A & B".   Kiss

REMEMBER, 1st & foremost, this is, above all, a HOBBY....<thought I was going to use KISS again, Huh?>
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 08:52:12 AM by KB3RPE » Logged
KG4RUL
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2011, 09:13:59 AM »

DStar

A system with multiple, single points of failure!
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KC8IUR
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Posts: 156




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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2011, 10:36:33 AM »

DStar

A system with multiple, single points of failure!

Haha! That's great.

Someone is selling a IC-92AD package over on QRZ for $350. If I wasn't ring shopping, i'd get it to fool around with. It's half price compared to new.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5810




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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2011, 06:25:46 AM »

You are mistaken.  Join the yahoo groups and do the reading.  D-Star is showing signs of outgrowing the original Icom implementation through amateur-led reverse engineering and extensions such as a multi-trust based upon the IRC protocol.  Very interesting.

Here is the status of the various efforts as of January (thanks to NS7C for creating this table!):  http://www.armymars.net/D-Star_Support_Matrix.pdf

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL

Read again--  "...Even if you can build your repeater, chances are that it will not completely interface with the Icom D-Star systems."  Note that I said "COMPLETELY".  Even though the general concepts of D-Star are public knowledge, certain protocols are not--and Icom could and would take a dim view of their use.  Can you say 'lawsuits'?
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KC0TAF
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Posts: 1




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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2011, 08:02:31 PM »

I am going to add my two cents. One very important piece of information that is missing with all this fancy stuff D-Star does. It DOSE NOT provide for error free data verification (Check SUM) with transmitting data. So during the transmission of critical data file, I can not prove to the receiving agency that data is error free.

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NA0AA
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Posts: 1043




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« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2011, 12:17:31 PM »

I think D-star is a mistake for emcomm.  I don't think marrying computers to amateur radio benefits us that much, particularly with a single 128KBPS single backbone per channel/repeater.  My town of 15,000 people has a satellite switch that will take over the entire city hall and it fits in a briefcase.  Seamless phone and internet.

We Amateurs cannot compete anymore on a technology basis.  IF we insist on believing we are relevant in emergencies, we need to get a new mission, because communications is passing us by.  We can't even offer numbers that much anymore.

That is NOT to say that someday, digital radio won't be a regular feature of amateur operating.

And I don't object to ICOM's use of the AMBE Vocoder, it's a good choice and I wish people would quit abusing them on the basis that somehow their radio system is "Propritary" - the vocoder can be bought by Yaesu or Kenwood anytime they want to introduce a D-star compatable radio.  I assume the reason they have not, is that they don't believe the market supports the need for it yet.

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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2011, 06:27:28 AM »

Anything that is has wired ground communications as a link will go out in a disaster and can only be considered as a temporary expensive convenience!  Wink
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