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Author Topic: American made VHF/UHF mobile radios  (Read 7302 times)
N2EY
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2011, 04:41:37 PM »

It ultimately comes down to cost. Compare an Yaesu with something similar from Ten Tec. Compare a Mahindra to a John Deere. Do this while you are on a limited budget and needing to get a job done. You, and everybody else, does what they have to.

There's a reason my radio is old, my tractor is older, and my lamp is even older.

There's also a reason we're on limited budgets.

"Global economy" and such buzzwords don't change the facts. The USA has been steadily shipping good jobs and vital industries out of the country for short term gain. But in the long term it has cost us.

Lost jobs are an obvious result. But there's more.

By running a trade deficit, we are slowly but surely shipping wealth created here to other countries.

By eliminating industries, we eliminate the knowledge/skills associated with them. Why learn a trade or profession if there are no jobs in it?

By becoming more and more dependent on imports, our very freedom and way of life are endangered. (The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was the direct result of FDR's embargo of oil, steel, electronics and raw materials. Japan could not keep doing what they were doing back then without those supplies).

Sure, the labor in some other countries is a little cheaper. But there's the cost of long-distance transportation, too. And the inability to repair many things, which clogs up the waste stream.

What the sellers of all this stuff won't tell you is just how much more it would cost to make something in the USA. Or how many American jobs would be created, thereby increasing the tax base. Or what the long-term benefits would be with Made In USA.

As for NAFTA, it only covers North America.

Sure, a Yaesu may be a little less expensive than a Ten Tec. A big part of the reason is that the Japanese trade policies and tax laws are set up to protect their workers and businesses from foreign competition, while American policies aren't.

Last of all - if we ship all the industries out of the country, what are American workers supposed to do for a living? Everyone can't be a doctor, lawyer, teacher or government worker etc.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
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N3JBH
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« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2011, 09:22:23 AM »

I`ve also heard that the John Deere tractors sold at Home Depot are not as good as the ones sold at their own dealers`stores. Has anyone else heard this? Please say it `aint so...

The local John Deere dealer here sells both agriculture and lawn and garden tractors, what i have noticed is the line of equipment they carry is for the most part more robust in the build strength and the price reflects it. they do carry some of the lower level lines carried by the so called big box stores.  but most of the tractors are much beefier built having diesel engines or quality gas engines in them.
seldom do you find them under $5000.00 dollars there serious high end garden type tractors with 5 lug axles.  and such. I guess or maybe assume Walmart ,home depot etc do not cater to this market there more geared toward the small yard types you know the 1 maybe 2 or 3 acre yard types. that are perfectly happy spending $2000.00 on a small tractor that simply cuts and mulches the yard. and that's fine i bet there tractor wont be running 28 years latter like my  Big cub  but spends your money and get what ya pays for Jeff
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K1CJS
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« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2011, 09:54:31 AM »

Sorry, Charlie, but I have done enough comparative shopping over the last 10 years to know that this is an inaccurate statement. I match model number for model number, and on name brand items, there is no difference. As for manufacturing in China, it was happening a long time before WalMart became as big as it is. Whether you and I like it or not, China is a major player in the manufacturing market and will likely surpass the US within the next five years. Again,  before you bash WM, look at where Sears, Home Depot, Lowes and the other mass market company get their products - especially their house brands, Even the Craftsman label from Sears is no longer US-made.

The EXACT same TV set I bought from Best Buy was available from WM for $50 more. Another brand (again, exact same model number) was slightly cheaper at WM than BB. You don't want to shop at WM, that's your choice, but don't try to paint them as somehow evil, unless you are going to paint every other major retailer with the same brush.

Hey Louis, I didn't say ALL of the merchandise was as such.  Some of it is.  And you're not going to tell me that Wal-Mart didn't build its business on cheap, mass produced stuff that people in their right mind would NOT have bought a couple of decades ago.

Hey--Wal-Mart has their place.  It's just unfortunate that they've 'run over and killed' so much of their competition while they built their empire.  And you're right--more retailers are buying the cheap stuff and selling it, since most Amreican people today aren't giving a darn as to where they're sending their money.  Wal-Mart isn't alone anymore.  But they are the 'standard' that has forced the other retailers to follow them.
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VE7DQ
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2011, 11:54:03 PM »

Unfortunately, many (most?) North Americans are more concerned with price than source or quality.  This Wal-mart mentality has already invaded ham radio.  Notice the recent infatuation with the cheap chicomm VHF/UHF radios.  I suspect that much of the technology for these radios was reverse-engineered from Japanese examples, with little R&D co$t, and that they are being dumped in North America to queer the market.

A US-made VHF/UHF radio would, in all probability, be doomed to failure, simply because it would be more expensive to produce, and, even if it was feature-rich, would be competing with similar, cheaper, established import radios.

Just as the US has lost most of its ham radio engineering and manufacturing base to Japan, Japan's ham radio industry could be further distressed by these cheap chinese knockoffs.  What happens when YaeComWood et al decide that declining ham production is no longer viable in Japan because they are being undercut by chinese marketing practices?

Who would you rather support with your dollars?  Japan or China?  An ally or a potential opponent?  China's runaway economy and military buildup (both supported by OUR transferred wealth) are... troubling.

You won't find any significant chinese stuff in my shack, at any price, if I can avoid it. 

Long live the few North American and Japanese manufacturers we presently have!
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W3LK
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« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2011, 12:06:32 PM »


Hey--Wal-Mart has their place.  It's just unfortunate that they've 'run over and killed' so much of their competition while they built their empire.  And you're right--more retailers are buying the cheap stuff and selling it, since most Amreican people today aren't giving a darn as to where they're sending their money.  Wal-Mart isn't alone anymore.  But they are the 'standard' that has forced the other retailers to follow them.

Just like HRO, AES and the other (primarily) Internet-sales based retailers have killed off the mom and pop ham stores; national and regional chain grocery stores have killed off the mom and pop grocery stores; Home Depot and Lowes have killed off the mom and pop hardware stores ... take your choice, mass-marketing always does in the small retailer.

If a retailer has what I want at a price I am willing to pay, then I am pretty much unconcerned with where the product is made. Like many other things, you have have low prices, product availability or touchy-feely customer service - just not all three at the same place.
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KC8IUR
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« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2011, 12:25:06 PM »

But AES *is* my local mom and pop.
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W3JKS
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« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2011, 01:40:41 PM »

You can buy an American-made HF-UHF radio (2 MHz - 2 GHz) from Boeing.  They would be happy to sell you one right now since the Pentagon is having second-thoughts about buying many of them.  Of course, they don't work very well, the voice quality is not all that good (Army's tests, mind you) and they cost over $300,000 EACH.

Knock yourself out. 

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAM3RE/AAA9SL
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N2EY
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« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2011, 01:55:50 PM »

If a retailer has what I want at a price I am willing to pay, then I am pretty much unconcerned with where the product is made.

I think a lot of Americans think the same way. Until the consequences catch up to them.

What I have seen happen in the USA for the past 30-odd years is the slow but steady dismantling of the middle class, done by small changes that have added up over time.

I think we've been sold a short-term bag of defective goods that winds up costing us all more in the long run.

Like many other things, you have have low prices, product availability or touchy-feely customer service - just not all three at the same place.

But the Wal-Mart method goes far beyond that.

Check out this documentary (it's on Netflix):

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

Consider also these questions:

Should it matter to the customer if a product they buy is made by exploited/abused workers?

Should it matter to the customer if their country has a consistent trade deficit?

Should it matter to the customer if entire industries where their country used to be a world leader are being shipped away, so that they no longer have a choice?

Is it possible for a country which is highly dependent on imports to maintain its independence and freedom if there are serious disagreements with the countries that supply it?

I'm not against trade or a global economy, when both parties benefit. But it seems to me that there's more to it than a race to the bottom.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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AD4U
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« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2011, 02:37:00 PM »

Don't worry!  Foreigners are starting to buy all of our bargain real estate, so at least we'll get something back!

Foreigners can buy every piece of land in the USA, but they can't take it home with them.

Dick  AD4U
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N2EY
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« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2011, 02:54:23 PM »

Foreigners can buy every piece of land in the USA, but they can't take it home with them.

No, they can't.

But they can take home the rent.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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K0BG
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« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2011, 03:55:01 PM »

One thing to keep in mind is tiering.

Most major brands of consumer electronics have three tiers (levels if you please) of products. For sake of argument, lets call them good, better, and best. The good stuff is marketed (sold in consumer parlance) by just about anyone who has the money to purchase goods. The second tier (better) is sold by retailers like Best Buy, in some cases Walmart, Value Source, Rex, and similar outlets. The best stuff is sold by ListenUp, Sound Solutions, and other high-end electronic retailers.

Typically, the top of the good tier, has the same features as the low end of the better tier. They may, or may not, have the same part number. The same goes for the better, and best tiers. It should be noted that the pricing is similarly situated, and in some cases you're better off buying the lessor of one tier, than the best of a lower tier. It just depends on the marketplace any individual company aims at. As a result, it's a shopper's nightmare! Thus, anyone, buying consumer electronics needs the ability to read between the lines.

There are guides to follow, and a few of them are: Make sure you read the model nomenclature very carefully. For example, one model might have a part number of KV43UV3, and another KV43VU3.  It is not uncommon to transpose features in a list of features. This is meant to purposely confuse the consumer. Again, read very carefully, and make sure the device you're buying has the exact features you want!

As for some models having wired in plugs, while a better model a computer type cord, that's hogwash! These guys are in the business to make money. Designing models which use the same basic configuration, with daughter boards, or missing parts in one model vs. another, is part of the strategy. Using different hardware does the opposite.

Lastly, it should be mentioned that the price you pay doesn't mean squat! Make that double squat!!! Consumer electronics always have at least 35 points of profit. It is not uncommon to have discount structure from MSLP of 35, 20, and 10. So the next time you see some super-duper 35% discount from Walmart, know that they are still making over 25% on the sales price!

Caveat emptor and then some!




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K1CJS
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« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2011, 04:56:28 PM »


.....As for some models having wired in plugs, while a better model a computer type cord, that's hogwash! These guys are in the business to make money. Designing models which use the same basic configuration, with daughter boards, or missing parts in one model vs. another, is part of the strategy. Using different hardware does the opposite.....


Oh really, Alan?  Are you telling me that cheaper models do NOT leave out parts meant for convenience in the more expensive models?  If so, YOU are the one spouting hogwash.  That's the whole idea behind creating lower priced models for your bottom tier.  The extra parts used for the convenience or for extra function are eliminated or reduced, and that lowers the costs.  The ideas that they'll include the parts that are not needed for the basic functioning of the appliance or device and just lower the price to call it lower tier is hogwash.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2011, 05:00:47 PM »

Lon, you're alone on this one.  Jim and I agree almost exactly.  Americans who are simply looking for the lowest cost on an item without taking into account the origins of the item are selling this country, bit by bit, to the foreign countries and companies who ship their junk over here for the 'gullible Americans' to buy.
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W3LK
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« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2011, 06:41:22 PM »

Lon, you're alone on this one.  Jim and I agree almost exactly.  Americans who are simply looking for the lowest cost on an item without taking into account the origins of the item are selling this country, bit by bit, to the foreign countries and companies who ship their junk over here for the 'gullible Americans' to buy.

(1) Alone doesn't make me wrong. Smiley

(2) The overwhelming majority of products sold in this country are made outside the US. This is not going to change, no matter how much one moans and groans about it. Some of you people think this is new; it's not. We have been buying predominantly foreign goods for something over 30+ years now. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. There hasn't been a US-made TV set since the early 70s (if then). Clothing has been coming from India, the Caribbean, Indonesia, Mexico and other places for 30+ years. The majority of tools sold, even at Sears, are made outside the US.

(3) (reference the bold print) I know very few people, in any country, that will willingly spend a measurably larger amount of money to buy something made wholly within their country.

Believe what you want, guys, it won't change reality.
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K0BG
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« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2011, 10:04:14 AM »

Chris, the reason I made that "brash" statement is that it is true.

Almost all consumer electronics are robotic production line items, and everything that can be flow soldered on, is! I'm fortunate enough to have seen first-hand how Hitachi manufacturers flat-screen TVs. Their least expensive model is not corded. This is true of the vast majority of CE devices. If you would have been at CES this year, and took the time to look, you might be surprised at what was there. One of those surprises was the number of flat-screen TVs which had external power supplies.

Lon's comment about buy cheap is true too. How we got there, would take a few tome-sized books.

I'm just glad I'm not still in the business.
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