Talking and Sending CW at the Same Time

[K3TN]

How many out there can talk and send CW at the same time? I can't, though I can receive CW and speak at the same time. The recent post on research about areas of the brain used when receiving CW reminded me of recent research on cell phone use that showed that talking uses huge portions of the brain and talking while driving (whether talking on a cell phone, a 2m rig, to passengers in the car or to imaginary people in your head) is hugely distracting but obviously still doable. But I flat out can not talk and send at the same time.

A skill I used to admire back in the day was the ability to send CW with one had and write with the other hand. In the ancient days of paper logging in contesting, this wasa big advantage - I could never do that, either. These days with computer logging, not so valuable - though I guess I could be ragchewing and writing checks to pay the bills at the same time...

[ES1TU]

I think its impossible. Unless the spoken text is "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come..".

I have been "CW" for one month now. I can quite comfortably eat yogurt with my left hand while right hand works the paddle.
But talking and sending...no way

[KE4JOY]

When I was a young buck I could copy/send CW @ 15wpm or so, talk on the phone, and browse a magazine all at the same time.

Not any more 

Now I have issues with just head copy 

[WA9FZB]

Actually, some of us can do this.  While my spoken conversation may be a bit "choppy" I can carry on a conversation on one subject while copying code in my head on another.  I can also speak and send, although as another poster noted, not nearly as well as I used to when I was much younger.

[WB2WIK]

I send CW and talk at the same time almost every day.

Doesn't seem particularly difficult to me, I guess different parts of the brain at work.

However I've been using code for 45 years, and almost daily for that entire time.

I still can't send left-handed, though.  I can't even eat soup with a spoon in my left hand.

[KG6IRW]

Back when I was in engineering school in the 70s, one of my instructors was a part professor in practical electronics.  I say, 'practical' electronics', in that he was adept at teaching us many of the more hands-on parts of our classes - the labs.

This gentleman had retired from the Navy in the late 50s; having started as a radioman in the Pacific in WWII on a destroyer there.  While we would be working on our labs, we'd typically have 5 or 6 old radios tuned to local CW/SSB nets and ragchews.  They were lined up beside each other by the windows for the antenna connections.  While they were chattering away, old (as we thought of him) Mr. Whitehurst would pass through to help those of us who were stumped or lost with the exercises at hand.

On one particularly busy lab day Mr. Whitehurst suddenly straightened up from looking over a circuit, said, "what do you know!" then resumed his helping one of us plebe-engineers. He then went over to one of the radios and dashed out a bit of CW and resumed his lab monitoring. He did it again with the radio beside the first one with more CW flying out the antenna.  He paid more attention to the activity on the air after that for the rest of the lab.

After lab, I asked him what he had heard on the radios and he reported that the captain of his WWII destroyer was talking with another ham and he wanted to make contact.  Then he mentioned that there were a couple of conversations talking about the Navy on some of the other receivers as well at the same time.  I asked him how he could keep track of all the CW activity _and_ engage with us labbies at the same time.

He then told me a war story about sitting at his post in the radio room of being at the Battle of Midway with the door to his radio room open.  He explained that he typically had 2-4 sets of headphones on his head during a battle to monitor all the traffic between ships.  Radiomen did this to shorten the 'hops' it took to get messages through the typical frequencies and control operators they had running.  "Every message is important when you are being shot at," he replied, "you can't wait for messages to be passed down the line."

So, Mr. Whitehurst could copy about 4-5 different threads of traffic at any given time and handle a bunch of mixed-up engineer-wanna-be's all at the same time.  BTW, it didn't make any difference what speed was being used, either!

Fast forward to today and I've decided to take up CW.  I'll never get to the level of Mr. Whitehurst but it isn't a bad goal to shoot for.

Cheers and 73s,

David

[K8AXW]

Interesting thread!!  "Back in the day," I could copy 25WPM on a mill with one hand, drink a coke, smoke a cigarette and carry on a short conversation with my trick chief at the same time.  While hearing the conversation wasn't a problem, my speaking or talking was "choppy" as previously noted.

Apparently copying code and talking .vs hearing requres a great deal more brain activity.

K8AXW

[N6GND]

Talking and sending at the same time may be related to the problem of using a cellphone while driving, which many people cannot do safely (although some can).

Listening to the radio while driving does not seem to impair drivers to nearly the same degree as when they talk on the phone.

[K8AXW]

GND:

Very good point!  Copying CW is more of a reactive process whereas talking requires the brain to formulate a thought to be spoken.  Listening to a radio is somewhat of an almost subconscious process.

It would be intersting to hear from an authority on this.

K8AXW

[K7PEH]

Often I am in the shack at night with the headphones on and sending CW and my wife walks in to ask a question.  I am able to say two words to my wife, "Not Now" -- she then realizes that I am sending (my Begali paddle is very quiet) and waits until I am finished.  But, at times I will be sitting in my room reading stuff on my laptop on the couch (with my laptop really on my lap) and listening to CW on the K3 sitting across the room.  I casually keep track of what is going on in the QSO thinking I might get up and jump in when it is done.  My wife comes in to talk.  I talk but listen at the same time to the CW but I miss a lot more but still sort of keep track of things in general.

Personally, I would say that carrying on a conversation and sending CW is an extremely rare talent but possible.  Back when I was in the 4th grade I had an unusual skill -- I could spell words backwards as fast as I could forwards.  And, to memorize the spelling words I merely needed to look at them.  At the school spelling bee I was often asked to spell the word backward as sort of a "show" to others.  By the time I was in the 6th grade I could no longer do this.  Some skills appear for just a fleeting moment while others (like eating without drooling) last almost a lifetime.

[NI0C]

Like, Phil, K7PEH, I find it difficult to speak with my mouth and send code at the same time.  My wife is often perplexed by this, because it doesn't look like I'm talking with anyone-- also she is used to being able to interrupt me while I'm not sending-- which is 99% of the time.

I can usually time share listening to a voice conversation and a slow CW transmission without missing much of either; however as the CW speed approaches my limit of comfort, I find I need to focus more.  If I'm practicing with RufzXP, I can't put up with any distractions at all!

73,

Chuck  NI0C

[N6GND]

"It would be intersting to hear from an authority on this."

I'm not an expert in the latest neuroscience, but do have a recent grad degree in psychology.

The explanation is very basic neuroscience. The brain works both as a organ with specific functional areas and as a network of these areas and the body as a whole.

Listening to sounds and interpreting them rely on both specific functions (hearing) and the networking of several cognitive areas having to do with language and emotion. These are complex and highly-evolved functions largely limited to humans with our highly developed frontal cortex. These advanced functions also require a lot of energy (blood flow to the highly-evolved part of the brain). The brain burns up a surprising amount of energy. Reflect on how hard it is to analyze a schematic when you are tired or otherwise low on energy. People with impaired blood circulation may not be able to process the same amount of information as those with good circulation.

Talking and sending require a series of additional (to the above) complex functions--small muscle control in the hand and arm, facial, lip and tongue control, breath control and feedback loops (error correction) among these functions.

Not to hard to see that sending and listening requires more processing power than just listening (to however many conversations). Talking, sending and listening more processing power yet.

[KG0MN]

The OM that got me interested in ham radio when I was about 16 years old was an old ham that had been active since the early days of radio and I went to visit him unannounced on a Saturday night.  I went to the door and and his wife told me Johnnie was in the small Building beside the house.  I later learned that this was not only his ham shack but he was also a TV repair man and he did his repair work there as well.  So I gently knocked on the screen door and I could see seated at a desk with his back to me and his feet on the pull out drawer of desk as he set sideways to it.  He was listening to code and eating a pastrami sandwich.  He motioned me in and when I started to talk to him he shook his head no as he began to send code with one hand and eat the sandwich with the other.  When the conversation was over he took time to speak with me until another call came and he said it was an old friend and he needed to tell him he would be delayed.  He was telling me this as he was sending CW back to the other person.  I know I must have looked like I had seen a blessed sight and in my eyes at the time I had.  God Bless Him.

[K8AXW]

K7PEH - You can still eat and not drool?  Wow!  :-)

N6GND - Very interesting.  I've never tried to analyze this process.  I did read one time that women can carry on more than one conversation at a time because of the way the two halves of their brains are connected.  Sorta like a parallel cable .vs a serial cable. 

It would be nice to hear from a hot female CW operator..... female hot CW operator?

K8AXW

[KA1VF]

In the late 60's, I was visiting at my best friend's house while his Dad (K1OIE/W4MDQ)
was working DX (Germany) on 20 meter CW. note: He was an ex-WWII Navy Op who
could copy/send high speed CW (25 to 30 wpm's), talk to you, drink coffee, smoke, etc.