Real time Comparison with HEX Beam and Mono Band Mosley Yagi will be interesting

[NN2X]

I am one person who likes to verify claims of manufactures, years ago, I put up an Quad system (Lightning Bolt)(15 Meters on a 24 FT Boom), and HyGAIN Mono Bander with similar boom length, and work the world..That was really interesting fact finding results..The Quad won, but not as much as you would think...However, in a Multiband configuration, the Quad eliminated any multiband system

Now how about this HEX Beam, Here is what manufactures claimed, all you need is 30 to 35 ft, and this match any 3 element mono bander even if it is 10 ft or 20 ft higher..Believe me, I called them all and they all same the same thing Now, Mosley claims they have a 3 Element Yagi that can achieve more then 8dB above a dipole while only using 3 Elements on a 24 foot boom..

OK, I believe them both..So this means, if I were to have a HEX Beam at 30 FT, and compared with a 3 Element 10 ft higher we should get the same results..

Well, I purchased a Hex Beam, they are all fairly the same, some might be more mechanical, the other may have 1 db more forward gain, all in all, fairly the same design

I also I went ahead, and ordered a Mosley, 20 Meter / 24 Foot boom 3 element yagi..(Mono Bander)...

I will put the Mosley at 40 FT, and the HEX Beam is already at nearly 30 FT…OK, Lets see…I will be on the air for all to compare, for at least 3 months…I love doing stuff like this…Again, I could care less who wins, I just purchased both of them,..

Remember, I am only taking the claim from both manufactures, nothing more..Hex beam only needs 30 ft, and can beat out or equal a 3 Element Yagi that is 10 ft higher..So I am taking this test on, by putting my own money on this comparison …

 
I will start these A B Tests around March 15.

[WA8UEG]

I agree, should be interesting. I would love to set a sked when you have it set up and ready to compare. My experiance with quads was the same, I compared my 2 ele 20/10 quad (Hy Gain Hy Quad) to my TA33 both at 45 ft and the quad blew it away in every aspect from gain to F/B ratio. Many will claim that a 2 ele quad has no advantage over a 3 ele. beam but sure isn't true at my qth.

[K0OD]

Excuse me but I'm having a hard time reconciling your post today with your post yesterday when you weren't even sure what 20 meter monobanders were made by Mosley (or Mosely as you called it yesterday).
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,73407.0.html

I hope your costly test is conducted with engineering precision not evidenced in your prose. For the experiment to have any validity, those large antennas will have to be separated by a few hundred feet and be over flat land. Two proximate yagis will interact.  The test won't be valid if either antenna is over, or even near homes, power lines etc. Your home in Allen Texas doesn't seem to have the required lot size.

--
NN2X said : "I will start these A B Tests around March 15"

I doubt you'll get the Mosley yagi that soon. Did you ask about delivery time, as several suggested yesterday (and how did you order on a weekend?)
 

[WX7G]

A-B testing is best conducted on received signals. Rapidly switch A-B. There is no need to do transmit testing. 100 receive comparisons can be conducted in a couple of hours. I find it best to test on different paths and different days.

Note that because they are logarithmic units decibels and S-units cannot be averaged. They must first be converted to linear units (volts), averaged, and converted back to logarithmic units. Plotting the data can be more revealing than simply stating a number.

BTW, your test will be more of a height test than an antenna test per se. The difference in gain between 30 feet and 40 feet should exceed the gain difference between the two antennas. The test results will be confounded by the height difference and a claim that antenna A is better than antenna B will be suspect.

What will the results be? The monobander at 40 feet will beat the HEX beam at 30 feet. In fact, since this is a known, and can be modeled with NEC, there is little point in installing and comparing the two antennas.

[WB2WIK]

Hex beams are shortened 2L yagis.

A 3L yagi on a substantially longer boom should blow it away.

Test finished.

[NN2X]

This is for K0OD..

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? So what I misspelled the Mosley, I was on my IPAD, did not know I was interviewing to write a book or a spelling contest.....I can tell you that Mosley doesn’t mind, especially when I bought their antenna. (CL 203)…

This supposed to be fun Hobby. I am just comparing two antennas that is all

Yes, I purchased the antenna from Mosley yesterday, from Gary…If you want to check, go for it…(My call NN2X)

While you are at it, check with HEX (Bobber) I purchased the HEX Beam from him. Anything else that you need to verify?

About delivery, Mosley, indicated in three weeks, (First week in March)…

But please get off my back with the spell check, go and chase some DX or something

Best

Tom Wright

NN2X.

[WB4AUW]

I agree with WB2WIK. I've never talked to any of the Hex Beam manufacturers but I've never seen claims in their ads to beat a mono-bander in any circumstance. The claims I've seen say that they work well at lower heights.

[W7ETA]

Best of luck OM with your experiment.  I hope you have a lot of FUN while playing around with those two antennas.

Rest assured, when you post the results they won't be perfect, at least to the point that some people will complain about your set up and your observations.

Best from Tucson
Bob

[WA8UEG]

Hex beams are shortened 2L yagis.

A 3L yagi on a substantially longer boom should blow it away.

Test finished.

Oh Yea, count on it. Like compairing Randy Johnson's fastball to mine. 

[WB2WIK]

Hex beams are shortened 2L yagis.

A 3L yagi on a substantially longer boom should blow it away.

Test finished.

Oh Yea, count on it. Like compairing Randy Johnson's fastball to mine. 

I heard your fastball is pretty good.

[WA8UEG]

A-B testing is best conducted on received signals. Rapidly switch A-B. There is no need to do transmit testing. 100 receive comparisons can be conducted in a couple of hours. I find it best to test on different paths and different days.

Note that because they are logarithmic units decibels and S-units cannot be averaged. They must first be converted to linear units (volts), averaged, and converted back to logarithmic units. Plotting the data can be more revealing than simply stating a number.

BTW, your test will be more of a height test than an antenna test per se. The difference in gain between 30 feet and 40 feet should exceed the gain difference between the two antennas. The test results will be confounded by the height difference and a claim that antenna A is better than antenna B will be suspect.

What will the results be? The monobander at 40 feet will beat the HEX beam at 30 feet. In fact, since this is a known, and can be modeled with NEC, there is little point in installing and comparing the two antennas.

Yea, but if your going to get a Mono bander anyway and have the facility to have both of them up why not? I would/did when I installed my quad a couple of years ago and my TA33 was still up. I was amazed at how much better the quad was on F/B ratio then the TA33 and how much more directive it was. After "testing" for a few days the TA33 came down and went on QRZ for sale, sold it in 5 hours!! I wasn't trying to do a paper or write an article on which was best just wanted to compare while I had the chance to do so. I think that is what he is looking to do and I am sure willing to listen and give some on air results as well.

[G3TXQ]

Now how about this HEX Beam, Here is what manufactures claimed, all you need is 30 to 35 ft, and this match any 3 element mono bander even if it is 10 ft or 20 ft higher..Believe me, I called them all and they all same the same thing

Can you confirm that you were told that by ALL the hexbeam manufacturers? Apart from Mike Traffie, I know the others fairly well and am surprised you were given that information.

K4KIO claims about 3.4dBd Gain for his hexbeam on his web site
DX Engineering claim "approximately 3dBd Gain"
MW0JZE claims 3.8dBd peak Gain

Could you tell us who you spoke to from these manufacturers that told you a hexbeam at 30ft to 35ft would match any 3 element monobander 10ft to 20ft higher?

Steve G3TXQ

[G3TXQ]

Now how about this HEX Beam, Here is what manufactures claimed, all you need is 30 to 35 ft, and this match any 3 element mono bander even if it is 10 ft or 20 ft higher..Believe me, I called them all and they all same the same thing

Can you confirm that you were told that by ALL the hexbeam manufacturers? Apart from Mike Traffie, I know the others fairly well and am surprised you were given that information.

K4KIO claims about 3.4dBd Gain for his hexbeam on his web site
DX Engineering claim "approximately 3dBd Gain"
MW0JZE claims 3.8dBd peak Gain

Could you tell us who you spoke to from these manufacturers that told you a hexbeam at 30ft to 35ft would match any 3 element monobander 10ft to 20ft higher?

I carried out extensive A/B comparisons on 20m between my hexbeam and a reference dipole at the same height. After 1500 comparisons I was able to say with 80% confidence that the hexbeam gain lay between 3dBd and 4dBd.

Steve G3TXQ

[K0OD]

"I carried out extensive A/B comparisons on 20m between my hexbeam and a reference dipole at the same height. After 1500 comparisons I was able to say with 80% confidence that the hexbeam gain lay between 3dBd and 4dBd."

Hey Steve, hope you're not going to interject any of your engineering mumbo jumbo into this. 

What comes next, page after page of charts?
http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/measurements_2/

[NN2X]

I am only sharing my testing experience, and people get testy when the possibility the sales pitch can be quantified in a small and modest tests, and yes mine are meaningless, worthless, unless you are me testing at my location, it means something!

Anyway, in the name of fun...I will perform the test…

But imagine, if for example, the HEX Beam is only one S Unit less, (Which every one says in 6DB,)..we can indicate that the costs of HEX Beam set up versus the Mosley antenna (Mono Bander) per S Units

For Example…

Lets say, the Mosley set up costs, about 2500 to set up, the tower, Install and antenna, while the HEX, beam, costs about 500 (USD) mono Bander (Bobber HEX Beam)..(I am using a push mast), I can put up the antenna by the way, up to 35 ft, temporarily and so therefore the height will be only 5 ft, between the two..(I will temp bring down the Mosley to 40 FT, (Lowering on the MAST)..

Assuming, there is 1 “S” Unit difference, I could indicate for my meaningless test, that is cost me, 2000(USD) per S Unit or if there is 2 “S” Units difference it cost me 1,000 (USD) and so on .. When comparing to the HEX Beam costs (500 USD)

Or lest say there was no difference, or better HEX Beam out performs, who knows.! But I am sure we all heard that the HEX Beam is 3 to 4 db of gain, and really the MONO Bander 3 element is a MAX of 6dbd (Above a Dipole, more likely 5.5dbd, although Mosley indicates 8dbd)…And we all heard the claims, that HEX beam works well at lower heights, well now, it will be only 5 ft below the MONO Bander

So, forgive me, if 6db is per S Unit, and the HEX Beam has a gain of 3 of 4 dbd, there should be very little difference, especially since the MONO Bander wiill have a gain of MAX of 6dbd (In reality) Also, only 5ft different..

As I said, this is an experiment, I don’t care which works better….Great stuff though (For me, at my location..)!

If the HEX Beam work less the MONO Bander I will use it for 17, 15, and 10 Meters..If they are the same performance. I will sell the MONO Bander and put on the Tower ( I will sell to someone who desires to stack the antenna..

The HAM community should embrace this comparison, who really has the time, space, and the money to do these type of tests? Yes, it is meaningless, worthless, but not for me..!
 
Best

NN2X

Tom Wright