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Author Topic: Cluster mania  (Read 4019 times)
N3QE
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Posts: 2190




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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2011, 12:04:23 PM »

Well, I got sucked in a couple of days ago.  Several stations misposted S9DX as TT8DX on 30 meters.  I tuned down to 30 and there he was, loud and working a US pileup, but not ID'ing.  What the hell, WFWL, eh?  I called and got right through, but he sent "dupe" after our QSO.  Huh?  I hadn't worked TT8DX yet!  In fact he was sending "dupe" after probably 50~60% of his QSOs, because people thought they were working TT8DX, not S9DX.

After about 10 minutes he finally ID'd.  WTF, S9DX??!!  Wouldn't it have been better to send his callsign instead of "dupe" after fully half his contacts?  One hell of a lot less confusion and less time wasted...and, dare I say, a lot less "dupes."  I guess I should have known that it wasn't really TT8DX because Baldur isn't such a lid operator.
I have heard one particular big-gun DX contest station send out "DUPE" to dozens of ops in a row without ID'ing himself.

I never heard him ID himself at all in fact but I have a pretty good guess, from the keying defects, which station he was :-).

This was the 2007-2008 timeframe when for the big guns, rate was not just the big thing, it was the only thing. Overall the situation has improved but with some of the big multi-multi outfits it's obvious that not all their ops are quite of the same caliber :-)

Tim.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2011, 02:45:50 PM »

Transmitting with the wrong VFO is understandable.  Embarrassed  Freq police I can tolerate although they do more harm than good.  Sad The one type of BOZO operator I cannot stand is the turkey who has to get right on the DX transmit freq and tune up his amplifier at 20 over on my receiver, usually taking 20-30 seconds to do it. It usually happens when the DX is weakest and I have the receiver / filtering tweaked as much as possible to hear well and then one of these jerks fires up the amp and throws the carrier right into my headphones. Then I have to wait for a few minutes for my hearing to quit ringing before I can get back into the pileup.  Angry

Now I know why people get pins in their coax or coax cable cut or worse!!

If I need to tune / tweak my amp, I will go up (or down as needed) to outside the pileup bandwidth, listen for a couple of exchanges to ensure no one is calling where I am at and then do a very quick tuneup (or tweak) as needed on the amp. Then I set the XMIT VFO back to the area the DX is listening too and get back into the fracas. 99% of the time no harm - no foul to anyone. If you need more than 10 seconds to tune your amp, you need to get an autotune Alpha or learn to do it faster. My starting points for CW, RTTY and SSB are all charted using a dummy load and since my antennas are very closely matched to 50 ohms, it only requires a very quick touch up and I usually can do that on the first call or by doing as I mentioned above.  Cheesy

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
W7ETA
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Posts: 2527




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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2011, 07:24:09 PM »

"Sounds like a fine way to fix the problem he creates."

Each to his own.

I would NEVER do that.  It just adds more QRM.  I've had to try and listen to the DX while some op is trying to work the op calling on the DX's transmit.

For me, listening for the DX's call sign and split instructions is just the beginning of hunting.  Gotta find out where he is listening and how he is working thru the pile up.

Not copying the Dx's call sign and split instructions is "dumb Novice" stuff.

Not finding where and how DX is working the pile is strictly for new comers to DXing.

This has been going on for decades.

73
Bob
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WB3CQM
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Posts: 117




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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2011, 04:33:09 AM »



And when he continues to call the dx zero beat after being told up bunches of times by bunches of people trying to work split per the DX's but who cannot becuase one user cannot operate his radio rendering the DX unreadable? Sounds like a fine way to fix the problem he creates.
[/quote]

I hear you: But here is the problem also every one needs to keep in mind.

There are people that want to destroy your chance at working the dx. That is there purpose . Are we sure the call sign is even good?

One AM on 40 meter there was a S21 on freq . Of course a small pile up. I had a shot at working him on the Gray Line. This 5 station starts to call cq on the dx. Every one was trying to move this guy. He just kept calling cq. 2 people posted on the summit. I even spotted him begging him to stop.

Later I got a email from the guy with 5  call . He Had many dx awards was a old time ham and had no clue why any one would bootleg his call and want to hurt him. He was not the man calling cq. Frankly I believe him 100%

I have also hear grm from such stations and this is what happen. A dx station moves in on freq and so and so had a nice qso going. He is MAD because the dx has taken his freq. So he refuses to move and acts like the above. Some times it is just band changing and some time he might have a good argument.

I have been in pile ups with WX7G , you are a good op and I agree with you also.

Could it be Chuck that people see a posting - They in fact can not even half copy the call sign . But now they know the call they very much need. So they jump into the pile up and start calling ? The spotted person is so weak they can not even tell when they are working another station . I have heard dx stations go back to a station and that person not even go back to them from time to time. Makes you wonder why people are off sync and also do not answer the dx if he comes back to them. Is the clusters at fault for some of this ?

I agree with you Chuck on your comments . I am pretty sure you are 100% right that people do not listen and just jump in the pile up from seeing the station posted .

Chuck this is good subject to talk about - Thanks for the thread-

JIM
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2E0OZI
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Posts: 270




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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2011, 04:45:52 AM »

I'm new, and a I do a lot of listening.  Grin
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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
George Orwell
K8ALM
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Posts: 41




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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2011, 09:28:29 AM »

I am old-er and still do a lot of listening.

A few months ago I was "guilty" of the split button gaffe with a DX station.  I thought I was operting split when in fact I was not.  Ooops!  It was certainly not intentional. Shocked
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NW0M
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Posts: 24




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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 07:48:44 AM »

 
Well, I got sucked in a couple of days ago.  Several stations misposted S9DX as TT8DX on 30 meters.  I tuned down to 30 and there he was, loud and working a US pileup, but not ID'ing.  What the hell, WFWL, eh?  I called and got right through, but he sent "dupe" after our QSO.  Huh?  I hadn't worked TT8DX yet!  In fact he was sending "dupe" after probably 50~60% of his QSOs, because people thought they were working TT8DX, not S9DX.

After about 10 minutes he finally ID'd.  WTF, S9DX??!!  Wouldn't it have been better to send his callsign instead of "dupe" after fully half his contacts?  One hell of a lot less confusion and less time wasted...and, dare I say, a lot less "dupes."  I guess I should have known that it wasn't really TT8DX because Baldur isn't such a lid operator.

Maybe you should have waited to verify the call before you jumped into the pileup?Huh 

There was a guy recently on 40M who jumped into a pileup and then asked the DX three times before getting his call right.  THEN he asked for his QTH.
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K0RS
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Posts: 712




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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 01:54:38 PM »

Maybe you should have waited to verify the call before you jumped into the pileup?Huh  

Yeah, maybe I should have done that.  And maybe the turkey should have been ID'ing, too.  Maybe I should have done everything perfectly while he was doing everything perfectly wrong.  You would admonish me for not verifying the call before I worked him, but I didn't leave the frequency until I had verified it to my satisfaction.  Which is, of course, how I knew what was happening.  How many DXers do you suppose tuned away without verifying the call and still believe to this day they have a valid TT8DX QSO in the log?

Maybe S9DX will delete me from their log for being a dupe.  Guess what?  I don't give a rat's S.  The sun came up the next day.  I not gonna get an OO notice.  My DX bill won't go up.  In fact I didn't log the contact myself.  Ultimately, who cares?  This guy was creating his own problems by letting the cluster system be his ID method of choice.

I'm in the fortunate position where I really don't need to work anyone.  I have all countries confirmed.  But it is nice to fill in band slots.  In fact, that's the only real challenge left.  I moved about 6 years ago and started my DXCC over again just for the hell of it.  Frankly, the fun is in the chase, not the arrival.  (You guys who believe you are marooned at 280 countries take note.)  I didn't even bother to apply for my DXCC #1 certificate because I feel no need to have the ARRL "bless" my contacts.  I know what I've accomplished and, after all, nobody else really cares anyway.

I admit "getting sucked in."  When several stations post a DX, and they all agree on the call, you tend to believe it.  Obviously, multiple stations made the same error.  Obviously, too, multiple stations in the pileup were making the same error.  It shows one of the weaknesses of the spotting network.  Before the days of the internet spotting system I would have been forced to sit on frequency listening until the DX finally condescended to ID.  You can argue that perhaps this was a "better" way to do it.  You "earned" your QSOs.  It certainly was high effort.  It's not, however, today's reality.  

"S9DX" and "dupe" are four characters each.  The clown had time to send "dupe" after so many QSOs, but was in such a hurry he couldn't ID?  As a presumably experienced DXpedtioner, he couldn't figure out what was going on?

Have you ever been in a pileup waiting for an ID when the DX suddenly says "OK nw QRT TU de P5RS7 nw SK" ?  Have you ever heard the expression "WFWL" (Work First, Worry Later)?  I was trying to keep a rare one from getting away. Dxing is the art of the possible.  Sometimes you have to respond in a less than ideal way to a less than ideal situation.  I look back at some of the QSOs made over the years and it’s amazing that  I was able to make the contact at all.  Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn’t.   I don't hold myself blameless, but there could have been a better way of handling the pileup from the DX's end.  
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 12:49:24 PM by K0RS » Logged
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