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Author Topic: My complaint with some of the Big Gun's  (Read 22097 times)
KG0MN
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2011, 08:53:07 AM »

A number of you that have replied to my topic understand what I am complaining about and then there are those that think if someone complains about they are the ones that are the bad people.  The main point I was trying to make is if you have worked station XYZ4X on Sunday why do you have the need to work him the very next day on the same band when you can hear a pile up taking place?  I will answer my own question.  You are just proving that your ego is even bigger than your antenna and allowing anyone else to work him is just your fear that someone someday may become bigger and louder than you are. These people in my opinion are as worthless as self-spotters, very rarely do you see a self spotter that is not someone that thinks they are more privileged and rules do not apply to them.
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N4NYY
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2011, 02:36:09 PM »

Quote
Thats a no crapper. I have just given up on ever talking to this feller.

I forgot about him calling by the number. But can talk for several minutes. That is why I do not bother.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 05:18:39 PM by N4NYY » Logged
AF3Y
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2011, 04:33:09 PM »

St Helena was kinda hard for me to get too.  I have a couple different stations confirmed, but still have one whom I worked and sent a card to in 07, with no reply Sad. Even the two or three I have confirmed took a while. I think their mail service is somewhat limited.  By the way, I am pretty sure I know the longwinded ham of whom you speak...   GL... Gene
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N4NYY
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2011, 05:20:11 PM »

I have only heard that one ham from St. Helena. Maybe I will get lucky in a contest. I am not even trying that ragchewer.
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W7ETA
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2011, 07:01:24 PM »

"why do you have the need to work him the very next day on the same band when you can hear a pile up taking place?"

If you really want to know, you'll have to ask the people who do that.

Once you get a collection of answers, then what?

"I will answer my own question.  You are just proving that your ego is even bigger than your antenna and allowing anyone else to work him is just your fear that someone someday may become bigger and louder than you are. These people in my opinion are as worthless as self-spotters, very rarely do you see a self spotter that is not someone that thinks they are more privileged and rules do not apply to them."

That is a story you have made up.  You are using this as an excuse to complain that other ops don't conduct their lives the way you think they ought to.

I fell your pain and frustration.  But take heart.  We are going up the sun spot cycle now.  DX will become more plentiful.  There will be more DXpedetions to RARE! places with openings even on 10 meters and sometimes on 6 meters.

Plus, one you work a new country for you, that is one less new one you can chase--less FUN hunting for the future.

There is a free program, probably a few of them, that uses data on sun spot actively, your location and the DX's location to predict what time and on what band your best chance of contacting the DX is.  Since I don't have a 100 foot tower, monobander antennas and a Henry 10K, I use that tool often to gauge when propagation will favor my part of the country.

Happy Hunting
Bob

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KB2FCV
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2011, 07:41:35 PM »

A number of you that have replied to my topic understand what I am complaining about and then there are those that think if someone complains about they are the ones that are the bad people.  The main point I was trying to make is if you have worked station XYZ4X on Sunday why do you have the need to work him the very next day on the same band when you can hear a pile up taking place?  I will answer my own question.  You are just proving that your ego is even bigger than your antenna and allowing anyone else to work him is just your fear that someone someday may become bigger and louder than you are. These people in my opinion are as worthless as self-spotters, very rarely do you see a self spotter that is not someone that thinks they are more privileged and rules do not apply to them.

You're assuming alot there. How do you know the two people aren't good friends? I'm guilty of working KC4AAA (not exactly rare.. but not on every day..) quite a few evenings in a row.. but guess what? The operator there is a long time friend of mine. Some nights the propagation is better than others and it was nice to talk to him since he was down there for many months. I was doing that, and guess what.. other friends of his were working him on multiple evenings. But I guess we're all bad ops including the DX because we don't bow to your needs. How dare the DX station or friends of us operate for longer than a single qso with "59, thanks!" Excuse us for being LIDS.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 05:22:45 PM »

Oh, to be the perfect Dx'er....

That's the goal. We all fall short, but aim low and you'll hit the ground every time.

Wait a minute, I thought Dx'ing was about bragging and whining. I mean, if you can't brag and whine, what's the point?

If you are seriously asking that question, you won't understand the answer.

If we can't brag and whine, let's just shut this DX forum down now. Go through the history of the forum and remove all bragging and whining - what's left?

Technique, propagation, software, hardware, antennas, DX habits, geomagnetic conditions, rumored operations, planned operations....

There are several good books on the topic, and none of them have chapters entitled "Bragging" or "Whining".

Shameless self promotion of one's products?   

Since DXLab is entirely free, without advertising or requests for donations, where exactly is the harm in promoting it?

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ
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W2IRT
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 08:37:11 PM »

Ya know, in my experience, sour grapes of this variety invariably come from popgun stations or ops with zero patience and/or zero experience and who are frustrated by their relatively-low totals. They hear the big-dawgs repeatedly work the semi-rare guys and publicly bemoan the fact they can't get through, rather than just saying "Ah rats" and quietly go about building a better station, putting up a better/higher antenna and buying even a small, used 600W amp (hint: ZD7 ain't all that rare and Bruce--the gent I believe others were referring to--is a wonderful op and a great ham).

You never (or rarely, anyway) hear grumblings like this from anybody with over 250 or 300 in the log, multiple DXCC certificates and endorsements or contest winning certificates or plaques on the station walls. Ghods-only know there's plenty to bemoan in the realm of DXing (bad DXpedition planning and execution, lousy QSLers, kilocycle kops, lack of sunspots and the like) but criticizing big-gun stations for making difficult contacts shouldn't be one of them. Oh, and serious DXers got their WAS by working things like Sweepstakes, Field Day or the 160 contests not on 40m nets!

You know how I know this? Cuz that was me, circa 2001-2002. 35' dipole, 100W, TS-820 and yelling my lungs off (in the height of the sunspot cycle, may I add) for enough entities to make a DXCC. What did I do? I built my station up as best I could. I played in every single major contest I could find. I bought an amp, learned propagation and sat patiently in pileups until I was blue in the face. I even (gasp!) tried nets for the first couple of months until I saw the error of my ways. I fought and scraped for every single DX QSO in those days, for every contest mult, every new one, new band-fill and mode-fill. I bought an amp. I put up a tower and got real antennas. I traded in my POS Kenwood for a newer POS Kenwood, which I sold and bought a real radio. All in 4 years. Sure, I lamented missing the rare ones who I just couldn't hear (like Ed in P5 and the first VU4 DXpedition) but I celebrated the ones I did get. And yes, I brag a little when I hit the DX Jackpot. A new one on 160, busting the legendary BS7 pileups four times, my first trans-pacific 160 QSO and so on. That's all part of being a DXer.

To the original poster: I would suggest you build your own station up bigger and better, learn to contest, learn all your software, learn propagation and get in there and celebrate your successes, not worry about the fish that will always get away. And one last thing. Read  the wonderful DX stories by Hugh Cassidy (SK) and the later ones by Paul, VE1DX. Two very talented writers who get to the nub of things...and see which of his characters you best relate to.
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K3NRX
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2011, 04:22:16 AM »

Case in point. There is 1 St. Helena ham that has been on frequently, and even though other hams and I need this entity, he yaps, and yaps, and yaps. The pile is huge. I just turn the VFO.

Thats a no crapper. I have just given up on ever talking to this feller.  He REALLY likes to go by the numbers yet he is very good at missing 6s and 7s. 

Like most DX, they don't seem to understand that there is a HUGE geographical isolation between the "numbers" and just calling 1s through 0s does not take into account the propagation.  So he is busy calling 1s and 2s which he could chat with almost constantly, but he totally neglects the 6s,7s, and 5s which are a little more "rare".


Oh, yeah....I really feel bad for you guys on the west coast...always being jilted and totally neglected....PA-LEEZ!...If I had a nickel for everytime I heard a Euro wanting "W6/W7 Only Please," I'd have an FT-2000, and stacked 6 over 6 over 6 for a station....So I put forth the question, do you want some cheese with your whine?Huh

V
KA3NRX

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K3NRX
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2011, 04:27:36 AM »

Ya know, in my experience, sour grapes of this variety invariably come from popgun stations or ops with zero patience and/or zero experience and who are frustrated by their relatively-low totals. They hear the big-dawgs repeatedly work the semi-rare guys and publicly bemoan the fact they can't get through, rather than just saying "Ah rats" and quietly go about building a better station, putting up a better/higher antenna and buying even a small, used 600W amp (hint: ZD7 ain't all that rare and Bruce--the gent I believe others were referring to--is a wonderful op and a great ham).

You never (or rarely, anyway) hear grumblings like this from anybody with over 250 or 300 in the log, multiple DXCC certificates and endorsements or contest winning certificates or plaques on the station walls. Ghods-only know there's plenty to bemoan in the realm of DXing (bad DXpedition planning and execution, lousy QSLers, kilocycle kops, lack of sunspots and the like) but criticizing big-gun stations for making difficult contacts shouldn't be one of them. Oh, and serious DXers got their WAS by working things like Sweepstakes, Field Day or the 160 contests not on 40m nets!

You know how I know this? Cuz that was me, circa 2001-2002. 35' dipole, 100W, TS-820 and yelling my lungs off (in the height of the sunspot cycle, may I add) for enough entities to make a DXCC. What did I do? I built my station up as best I could. I played in every single major contest I could find. I bought an amp, learned propagation and sat patiently in pileups until I was blue in the face. I even (gasp!) tried nets for the first couple of months until I saw the error of my ways. I fought and scraped for every single DX QSO in those days, for every contest mult, every new one, new band-fill and mode-fill. I bought an amp. I put up a tower and got real antennas. I traded in my POS Kenwood for a newer POS Kenwood, which I sold and bought a real radio. All in 4 years. Sure, I lamented missing the rare ones who I just couldn't hear (like Ed in P5 and the first VU4 DXpedition) but I celebrated the ones I did get. And yes, I brag a little when I hit the DX Jackpot. A new one on 160, busting the legendary BS7 pileups four times, my first trans-pacific 160 QSO and so on. That's all part of being a DXer.

To the original poster: I would suggest you build your own station up bigger and better, learn to contest, learn all your software, learn propagation and get in there and celebrate your successes, not worry about the fish that will always get away. And one last thing. Read  the wonderful DX stories by Hugh Cassidy (SK) and the later ones by Paul, VE1DX. Two very talented writers who get to the nub of things...and see which of his characters you best relate to.

This is all very admirable, but that does not give the calling station the right to be a frequency hog by initiating a conversation with others waiting....unless the DX station controling the pile up initiates it first....Which was the point of this thread.....Remember, the bigger they are, the harder they fall......... Wink.....

V
KA3NRX

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W2IRT
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2011, 07:26:22 AM »

This is all very admirable, but that does not give the calling station the right to be a frequency hog by initiating a conversation with others waiting....unless the DX station controling the pile up initiates it first....Which was the point of this thread.....Remember, the bigger they are, the harder they fall......... Wink.....

Vince, I was referring, overall, to the O.P.'s complaint about a west coaster calling and taking away his chance to work what he considers a difficult station. If Bruce (or whoever else it was on St. Helena) didn't want to engage in a QSO like that he had full control of the situation. He's the DX, it's his ballgame. He chose to stop the pileup and work someone for whatever reason he wanted. He could have just said "I'd like to work down the pile a bit longer, maybe we can chat another day, 73 and thanks, QRZ," but he didn't. Maybe he was just being polite. Maybe he knew the guy. Who knows. Who cares. Sitting and whining about other people's behaviour won't put counters in your own log and from where I sit, there was absolutely nothing wrong with either side of that QSO. Me? No, I wouldn't call the same station more than once or twice a year unless he was a good friend, and even then, I wouldn't do it when there was a raging pileup going--but that's just me.

I'm not trying to flame the O.P. as an individual, but the point all would-be DXers need to understand is that DXing isn't a hobby for those without patience and it really is one of the last bastions of the Wild West we have left. We all get disappointed when we miss a truly-rare one. I missed BS7 on 17 metres because I was out mowing my lawn and came back just as they went QSY (they never showed up again on 17). I missed P5 because my station wasn't good enough, and I know I may never get P5 as a result. I missed 7O and KP1 because I wasn't on the air when they were. Boo Hoo. I may never work those ones either. I'm disappointed but I'm not whinging about it or jealous because my old neighbour up the road, with better antennas and a bigger amp, worked the P5 twice and has 7O1YGF confirmed too.

I'm saying the best way to handle a situation like that is to ask yourself what will it take for me to beat that west coast big gun and get in the log. Maybe the answer is a better antenna. Maybe it's knowing that ZD7 isn't rare at all (it's not even on the DXCC top-100) and he or another country-mate will be QRV in a few days or weeks or months.
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KY6R
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2011, 07:42:11 AM »

I appreciate NU4B's humor. Forum's like this one are good for "venting" and [sometimes] learning something of value.

Of course - when you are on the air, its all about making the contact. Great antennas + knowledge of propagation + operating skill = QSO. Sometimes power does make the difference.

As for the original posting - it drives me nuts when big guns sit there and beat their chests - but if the DX station allows indulges in this chest beating - then you just have to have patience. I missed a ZS8 a couple of years ago when he decided to use the biggest chest beating DX "Net" and two goofball Net Ops were so into showing how they could decide who were the "deserving" were that many lost out - because while they finished their chest beating, propagation shut down on that band (20M). Last September I finally worked ZS8M, and it was a 10 minute opening on 40M SSB. I have watched at least 2 previous DX-"workspeditions" to ZS8 before finally snagging it.

Maybe patience ends up being the ultimate DX-ers best weapon!
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NU4B
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2011, 09:03:56 AM »

Oh, to be the perfect Dx'er....

That's the goal. We all fall short, but aim low and you'll hit the ground every time.

Wait a minute, I thought Dx'ing was about bragging and whining. I mean, if you can't brag and whine, what's the point?

If you are seriously asking that question, you won't understand the answer.

If we can't brag and whine, let's just shut this DX forum down now. Go through the history of the forum and remove all bragging and whining - what's left?

Technique, propagation, software, hardware, antennas, DX habits, geomagnetic conditions, rumored operations, planned operations....

There are several good books on the topic, and none of them have chapters entitled "Bragging" or "Whining".

Shameless self promotion of one's products?   

Since DXLab is entirely free, without advertising or requests for donations, where exactly is the harm in promoting it?

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ

Dave,
 I know its free!!! Come on, man! We are obviously not on same page.

 I'm a DXer and I love to DX and I like to brag a little and probably complain a bit too much but in the end if there's a new one on the air and some of my racquetball buddies call at the same time wanting to play - its "see you later DX". You are just way too serious for me.

 There's nothing wrong in promoting DX LAB - in fact I said everybody should visit your website because its got good stuff.  Maybe I didn't give it the proper respect by calling it "good stuff". Sorry, man. that's just me.

 This is all too upsetting Grin - I'm going to go listen to some REM.
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MAZAKGUY
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2011, 11:42:28 AM »

1. Get a large pair of bolt cutters.
2. Find location of rude big guns antennas.
3. Use on tower guys.

No more rude big gun. See how easy that was to fix ROLF!!!
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WS3N
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2011, 07:54:02 PM »

"They hear the big-dawgs repeatedly work the semi-rare guys ..."

What is the point? Why is there a need to call again if you've already done it? A different band? Ok, at least that's a physical difference. But if you've already worked an entity on some band with mode x, there's nothing instructive about doing it again on x, or on modes y and z. The RF doesn't care.
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