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Author Topic: Windows 7 SP1  (Read 7048 times)
W0BTU
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2011, 08:53:38 PM »

I have seen problems cause by Norton Virus software in some configurations. I have deleted Norton for many machines over the years to replace it with more "friendly" virus software. Norton kinda likes to "take over".

W8JX, from reading your posts, I can tell you're pretty knowledgeable about computers, but I take issue with you about Norton.

Having said that, I also have had trouble with Norton (just not recently). Somewhere between Win2K and XP, I got fed up with Norton Antivirus and switched to other security products (such as McCaffe, AVG, Trend Micro, and Comodo). I used to use and recommend those products, but one by one, I experienced serious issues with them (and I was not alone, by any means).

While discussing those issues with my previous server tech guy, he recommended Norton. I got into an argument with him over that, telling him my bad experiences with Norton. He finally won me over. And I'm glad he did. I have been using Norton system-wide here for several years now, on XP and ever since Windows 7 came out. Maybe next month, Norton will crash all my PCs here, but for now, I could not possibly be any happier with it. No slowdowns or crashes.

The single "problem" I had was installing EZNEC. I had to disable Norton to install it.

How recent was your last bad experience with Norton/Symantec security products?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 08:56:52 PM by W0BTU » Logged

AA6YQ
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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2011, 09:23:30 PM »

Well I saved the cookies of someone last week that got a very nasty virus and blocked system restore and would not boot. Mounted drive on another system (very easy to do with SATA drives) and removed virus, then used recover to rebuild boot and restore and brought system back and lost zero data and had it back like it had never been messed up in a few hours. Point is there is always options.

No, there are not always options; some failures are irrecoverable. Assuming that because a happy outcome was achieved in one circumstance means that a happy outcome can always be achieved is naive and dangerous.
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W8JX
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2011, 10:07:25 PM »

I have maintained many machines and networks without Norton and will continue to do so. The server I use to "mount" (not boot from them) drives from infected systems uses AVG and it has NEVER failed to find and clean up a virus. (BTW not even Norton can clean itself when booted from a infected drive)  Also while drive is mounted you have access to all the files on it too. There are many products out there better than Norton and cheaper too. BTW, what started me on AVG was 5 years ago when my daughters started college school required a virus software to access school network (they used a Cisco client on machines to verify it) School provided a free unlimited license for Norton but it was a resource and hog and had issues with some software too. Head IT guy there recommended AVG to me when I was chatting with him one day as he said he used it too and I have used it ever since. Very easy on resources too on older machines.
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All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
W0BTU
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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2011, 10:37:05 PM »

5 years ago? That might have been when Norton was a resource hog here on our company PCs.

We stopped using AVG after getting fed up with it slowing down our PCs. I have discussed this with many IT professionals, and to a man, they agreed.

FWIW, the last version of AVG we used was the paid version (maybe that was the problem :-). I will never go back to AVG, unless we have a compelling reason to.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 10:45:54 PM by W0BTU » Logged

W8JX
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2011, 10:15:42 AM »

Never used paid version of AVG so I cannot comment on it. Norton has long had a track record of being a resource hog and program conflicts. A few years ago maker of SpyBot was having a running battle with Norton. It turns out that Norton was targeting it and other free spyware programs and killing them to promote Norton. Norton later quietly backed off but never admitted to it as far as I know.
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W0BTU
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2011, 07:21:07 PM »

Never used paid version of AVG so I cannot comment on it. Norton has long had a track record of being a resource hog and program conflicts.

I fully agree, John. But in the past 6 (possibly 7) years I've used it (I said 5 years above, but I think that's wrong) I have only had one conflict.

Norton indeed needs more RAM than others, and I should have stated that. We've always run 1 to 2 GB RAM on all our machines, and maybe we would have experienced a slowdown had we had less. Having said that, the other security software --which ran slower than Norton (not to mention the other issues) for us-- had the same RAM to work with as Norton.

It wasn't always that way. Maybe if I went back and tried some other security software again, I would see that things have been fixed. But since Norton has been running flawlessly, we switched to it system-wide and are happy customers.

Quote
A few years ago maker of SpyBot was having a running battle with Norton. It turns out that Norton was targeting it and other free spyware programs and killing them to promote Norton. Norton later quietly backed off but never admitted to it as far as I know.

I don't doubt that. I came up with a theory that the old Michelangelo virus (that goes back a few years) was Norton's invention to make money, but I can't prove it.
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W8JX
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2011, 07:40:39 PM »

I think that only reason that Norton may seem a little more palatable resource wise today is not because it has gotten better but because the base line system config for CPU speed and ram has gotten a lot more powerful. Norton utilities were great in DOS days but I do not care for them at all today.
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KF6QEX
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2011, 04:32:46 AM »

The best Feature of Symantec's Norton antivirus is in the Control Panel, Under Add /Remove Programs !!!
Along with Avast and CA
All three rub me the wrong way.

AVG I like a lot. And  Malwarebytes  Anti-Malware for removing those  Fake antivurs warnings automatically in a few seconds instead of manually.



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KB0ASQ
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2011, 10:50:23 AM »

We recommended Trend Micro for over a decade.  Then in the last few years it got to be resource intensive and didn't do as good of a job stopping Malware.  We then switched to AVG and used it for the last few years.  It was fine at first, but the last year it got to where it wasn't stopping anything.

Although it was good for our bottom line, we cleaned a lot of PC's, it was not good for our reputation.  So we went back to Trend for awhile.

Then we started using Vipre.  We have moved everyone over to it now.  It cleans stuff that the others couldn't even touch.  It used very little resources.  I believe it is about 15mb of ram for the background processes.  Best of all the tech support is based in the United States.  We hardly ever get put on hold and when we do it has been for 5 minutes or less.
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Allen KBØASQ
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KE4DRN
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2011, 05:10:03 PM »

hi,

we used all the flavors of Norton then moved to Trend,
the university where I work mandates Trend for now.

I use it on my home systems because we get it at no cost
thanks to the license the university has.

Otherwise I like Blink from eeye.

http://www.eeye.com/Products/Blink

73 james
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W0BTU
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2011, 05:51:20 PM »

We recommended Trend Micro for over a decade.  Then in the last few years it got to be resource intensive

Exactly our experience several years ago. We had the paid version installed system-wide. I don't know how it is presently, but after downloading a virus update one day, everyone's PC slowed to a crawl. I Googled it and found a huge outcry about this problem.

Finally, we had no choice: we switched to another AV program.
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WA9SVD
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2011, 10:17:59 PM »

The problem is no where near as wide spread as you suggest. I have restored systems that were badly infected and others wanted to wipe and reinstall. Also even if you were to have a bad install of a SP you could simply do a restore and rebuild of boot info or worst case mount drive in another system to recover data. I regularly back up my important data but do not bother with regular complete system backups. I might mention that I replace hard drive every few years whether needed or not in all my systems. I image old drive to new and swap them out.

    The only problem with an "image" backup to a new drive is that it copies any glitches, errors, malware, viruses, corrupted files, and other detritus that has accumulated over the years that may be on the original drive.

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W8JX
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2011, 06:28:11 AM »

The problem is no where near as wide spread as you suggest. I have restored systems that were badly infected and others wanted to wipe and reinstall. Also even if you were to have a bad install of a SP you could simply do a restore and rebuild of boot info or worst case mount drive in another system to recover data. I regularly back up my important data but do not bother with regular complete system backups. I might mention that I replace hard drive every few years whether needed or not in all my systems. I image old drive to new and swap them out.

    The only problem with an "image" backup to a new drive is that it copies any glitches, errors, malware, viruses, corrupted files, and other detritus that has accumulated over the years that may be on the original drive.



This is not really a problem with systems I normally maintain as they are healthy and freely scanned for error before the image copy. Never had a problem related to it and it is far better to replace hard drive before it fails rather than afterwards and possibly wind up having to do a complete re-install of everything. Plus, new hard drive are faster than old one so system is speed up as well. Even today I plan to upgrade/replace my daughters 3 year old systems 5400 RPM 250 gig hard drive with a 8 meg cache with a new 7200 rpm 500 gig hard drive with a 32 meg cache too. Afterwards I may upgrade it from Vista to Win7 with a free upgrade my daughter has from her college. I bought a few drives a few months ago for less than 50 bucks each for this machine and another.  Generally I usually always have at least one extra new drive on hand. I plan to upgrade a few 2+ year old 64 bit Vista laptops to Win7 soon but before I do I will upgrade their hard drives as well to newer faster ones (7200 rpm)
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KB0ASQ
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2011, 02:28:19 PM »

We have cloned hard drives for awhile. Mainly for replacements.  If we have a client that has a drive in the pre-stages of failure, we grab it and make a clone of it.  Some of our clients have line of business software installed that can take 2 - 3 hours to install, so it saves us a lot of setup time.

We use a product called HDclone.  We have a technicians license for it so we can use it on any number of machines.  A lot of people don't realize that Norton Ghost is usually licensed on a per machine basis or in units. Being in the business, we have to be sticklers about licensing issues.

Cloning doesn't always work and yes sometimes you have to do a clean install.  It will transfer over any problems, just not the bad clusters.  Sometimes if you have a machine with a lot of problems you are better off doing a reinstall, it is kind of an art to figure out when to cut your loses and start over.
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Allen KBØASQ
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W8JX
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2011, 02:43:18 PM »

Cloning doesn't always work and yes sometimes you have to do a clean install.  It will transfer over any problems, just not the bad clusters.  Sometimes if you have a machine with a lot of problems you are better off doing a reinstall, it is kind of an art to figure out when to cut your loses and start over.

I do not like to accept defeat and avoid reloads at all costs. It is not the potential data loss but also time consuming re-install of software and service packs too. The "art" is in not accepting defeat and finding a way to repair it. Unless there has been a major hard drive failure and loss on critical sectors, it can be repaired 99% of the time. BTW, just clone drives in two computers tat home today with no problems and even cloned them while system was booted too.
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