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Author Topic: Bragfiles have no place in contesting  (Read 12549 times)
K2ID
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2011, 12:00:01 PM »

Many hams are totally unaware of when contests are occuring. Most of the hams I know have no clue as to when contests are held or how they work. They hear a call and they want to chat. I got out of Digital modes due to the heavy use of macros. Most of the time we were just exchangeing info via a macro. Plus I had to type and look at my screen all the time. Not my cup of tea. I like to hear accents and the tone of the person on the other end. On the other side of the coin is the ham who does not use macros and types real slow and it is painful sitting three staring at each letter coming up one at a time with the occassional corrections. I am a verbal communications kind of guy when it comes to radio so it is phone mode for me. Smiley
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KB3LIX
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 02:45:15 PM »

"Then without a pause, break or anything, rolled right into a BRAGFILE giving everything short of the op's shoe size. It included rig, ant, computer, OS, how much memory in the PC, his age, grid square, GPS coordinates (like someone is going to go and visit him using them), etc., etc. It took a good minute or more to send the complete bragfile and then he handed it back with the standard 'So how copy, KP4 call DE his call"

This is EXACTLY why I quit working domestic PSK-31 contests
and for that matter, domestic PSK contacts in general.
Too many BS bragfiles, and too many totally inept and ignorant
operators out there.
I don't care to hear about their whiz-bang computer that was
built by Bill Gates himself, and powered by NASA.
I don't care if they are using an old coal fired PC using
DOS, as long as it can encode and decode the digi mode,
that is all that is important.

This sounds terrible, but it IS true.

Yes, I am an ass at times.

On the other hand, I enjoy working DX-PSK contests, as the
Europeans (I work mostly European stations in DX Contests)
seem to understand what is going on, and stay away from the BS macros.
If I remember correctly, there is a PSK-63 DX contest
this weekend.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 02:46:58 PM by KB3LIX » Logged
2E0OZI
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 04:48:20 AM »

As long as the contester puts the word "contest" in the call or better still on a busy weekend "New England QSO Party" (for example) then everyone knows what the deal is. They can look it up on the net (most of them can), find out the exchange, and dip thier toe in the water. I have done once or twice. 
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AE5X
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2011, 02:48:30 PM »


Too many BS bragfiles, and too many totally inept and ignorant
operators out there.

This sounds terrible, but it IS true.

Yes, I am an ass at times.

Don't worry about that final point - we all are...

What if braggarts could have their own contest where bragging was a required part of the exchange? Being humble gets you no points whatsoever. Exchanges could shall include educational level, age at loss of virginity, children sired (both in and out of wedlock), money spent on ham station, tequila tolerance, etc.



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N0SYA
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2011, 05:00:22 AM »

Perhaps we're being a bit harsh on "brag" files. For in the future, all ct's will be fully automated computer to computer only. One will merely look at the screen when, for example, the tv is at commercial, and check how well one is doing. Imagine the possibilities.
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KG6MZS
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2011, 11:36:23 AM »

In my experience this is another non-problem.  Just doesn't happen very often and when it does, so what?
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KC2UGV
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2011, 10:40:52 AM »

I observed a real doozy this weekend in the NAQP RTTY contest. While running S&P, I came across a KP4 station and decided to work him for the points. I called the KP4 and but instead he answered a '4' station. Now here is where the typical contest exchange got really weird. I guess the '4' station didn't work many contest or was unaware of proper protocol for exchanges as the KP4 station gave him name and location of Puerto Rico. The '4' station came back with a macro (or at least appeared as one or he is a really fast typist) that said hello to the KP4 operator name and how are you, etc. Then without a pause, break or anything, rolled right into a BRAGFILE giving everything short of the op's shoe size. It included rig, ant, computer, OS, how much memory in the PC, his age, grid square, GPS coordinates (like someone is going to go and visit him using them), etc., etc. It took a good minute or more to send the complete bragfile and then he handed it back with the standard 'So how copy, KP4 call DE his call K'. I just sat there staring at the screen thinking 'I know I did not see what I thought I just saw?'  Huh

On the handover, the KP4 station just sent his name and 'Puerto Rico' again followed by QRZ. I called him again, he picked me up and we exchanged and I was QSY, all within 10-15 seconds.

The idea of all this is we do need to have new blood in contesting but we also need to explain to the occasional operator the difference between standard rag chewing processes and proper contesting procedures. I have to commend the KP4 station for just waiting out the bragfile and then sending his info if the guy wanted it for the contest or whatever and then continuing on with his run.

See in the 'test,

Gene W5DQ

Did you ever think, that maybe, just maybe the 4 station wasn't participating in the contest?
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W5DQ
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2011, 11:55:35 AM »


Did you ever think, that maybe, just maybe the 4 station wasn't participating in the contest?

Yes, that was apparent by his responses and that was the whole point to the original post. The fact of the QSO indicated that ....

1) The 4 station didn't take time to listen to the KP4 in the contest. With the KP4's run tempo, it would have been hard not to discern something different from a typical CQ call was afoot.
2) The 4 station either didn't know what the contest was or possibly didn't care .... I'll give the benefit of doubt and say he was unaware of what contesting was all about and standard QSO exchanges are not desired during a contest as they cost the contestor time, especially in a hard run.
3) The 4 station could have actually been trying to get into the contest but was uneducated as to how contests work.... possibly and that is where fellow contesting hams can pass the knowledge on. Who knows, the 4 station may actually become a world class contestor someday and all it takes is knowledge on how. KNOWLEDGE IS KING!

My personal opinion is that bragfiles have a place and a limit for use ... simply firing off a discertation on one's 'everything' is not only bad operating practice but somewhat rude. In this case, the 4 station really could not have known how well the KP4 was copying him and to blast away with his life story before establishing that there was adequate signal quality for the KP4 to have a good chance to receive it all is just plain bad operating practice. I personally use bragfiles myself but I chop the macros into short segments with single topics that I can string together when needed but I rarely, if ever, send them all in one fell swoop without a break to check RX condxs.

My point was that the image portrayed by the 4 station was that of an uninformed newbie and that we all should strive to help increase our fellow hams knowledge of ham radio including contesting whether they plan on contesting or not.

73,

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
KC2UGV
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Posts: 441




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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2011, 12:27:58 PM »


Did you ever think, that maybe, just maybe the 4 station wasn't participating in the contest?

Yes, that was apparent by his responses and that was the whole point to the original post. The fact of the QSO indicated that ....

1) The 4 station didn't take time to listen to the KP4 in the contest. With the KP4's run tempo, it would have been hard not to discern something different from a typical CQ call was afoot.
2) The 4 station either didn't know what the contest was or possibly didn't care .... I'll give the benefit of doubt and say he was unaware of what contesting was all about and standard QSO exchanges are not desired during a contest as they cost the contestor time, especially in a hard run.
3) The 4 station could have actually been trying to get into the contest but was uneducated as to how contests work.... possibly and that is where fellow contesting hams can pass the knowledge on. Who knows, the 4 station may actually become a world class contestor someday and all it takes is knowledge on how. KNOWLEDGE IS KING!

My personal opinion is that bragfiles have a place and a limit for use ... simply firing off a discertation on one's 'everything' is not only bad operating practice but somewhat rude. In this case, the 4 station really could not have known how well the KP4 was copying him and to blast away with his life story before establishing that there was adequate signal quality for the KP4 to have a good chance to receive it all is just plain bad operating practice. I personally use bragfiles myself but I chop the macros into short segments with single topics that I can string together when needed but I rarely, if ever, send them all in one fell swoop without a break to check RX condxs.

My point was that the image portrayed by the 4 station was that of an uninformed newbie and that we all should strive to help increase our fellow hams knowledge of ham radio including contesting whether they plan on contesting or not.

73,

Gene W5DQ

Maybe, just maybe, the 4 station didn't care about the contest, and was looking for a ragchew?

I know, contesters will poo on any station "robbing them of points", but not every op out there on a contest weekend is looking for a quickie-exchange.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2011, 04:44:27 PM »


Maybe, just maybe, the 4 station didn't care about the contest, and was looking for a ragchew?

I know, contesters will poo on any station "robbing them of points", but not every op out there on a contest weekend is looking for a quickie-exchange.

If that were the case, it was very thoughtless and rude of the 4 station to interfere with the KP4 station's participation in the contest if only to try to work a ragchew QSO. I hardly think there is a ham who has been licensed for more than a week who hasn't heard the ruckus on the bands during contests nor hasn't been privy to the rivalry between contestors and non-contestors. I used to be a non-contestor a few years back and hated the wekends when there was a big contest because it meant I was probably going to be forced off to a WARC band. When I realized that I could easily work in the contests just for fun, several things happened to me:

1) My confirmed DXCC count has almost doubled in only about 4 years - I am at 230 worked and 210 confirmed.
2) My code speed has risen back to a very comfortable 20 wpm - for many years I let my CW usage lapse and got rusty to where 5 wpm would have been a struggle.
3) My station efficiency has improved by the very reason I want to do my best with what I have in the contests - I do not have a powerhouse station. I have the typical small station with a triband yagi at 40' with a older TS940S radio and a Ameritron AL-811 amplifier. Sure I could go out and buy the big gun stuff but I have lots of fun with the current setup. I have learned to use it much better than before and my resulting improvement in scores shows it.

If a station wants to ragchew on the contest weekends, there are plenty of places to do so, on both the old bands and the WARC bands. For new guys, I would highly recommend that they look at their station configuration and use what they have to learn with and see where they actually need to improve the equipment list instead of rushing out to buy whizband do-it-all gear. CW with a soundcard interface is a breeze and you're code speed will just naturally increase as you proceed along. RTTY is fun too and learning to use it in contesting will improve your abilities for ragchewing and vice versa. Put your best signal out and you will get results.

As to getting poo'ed on by contestors, if you go looking for it, you'll find it. Going out to mess with someone has risks in all aspects of life and if anyone wants to try and have a ragchew with a station knowing very well that that station is in a contest, well, if you get poo'ed on - so be it. I find it in the worst kind of poor sportmanship to do that sort of thing. You know Corey, looking at your resume, I would think a really intelligent person like yourself would see the folly in that sort of, well for the lack of a better definition, harassment and it does no one any good and only creates animosity among the fraternity of hams. We have enough issues to deal with from external forces who would love to have our spectrum and causing hate and problems among ourselves is counterproductive.

73 and maybe I'll catch you for a ragchew or in a contest someday,

Gene W5DQ
 
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
KC2UGV
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2011, 06:47:01 AM »


Maybe, just maybe, the 4 station didn't care about the contest, and was looking for a ragchew?

I know, contesters will poo on any station "robbing them of points", but not every op out there on a contest weekend is looking for a quickie-exchange.

If that were the case, it was very thoughtless and rude of the 4 station to interfere with the KP4 station's participation in the contest if only to try to work a ragchew QSO.

Rude and considerate happen to be very subjective things.

Quote
I hardly think there is a ham who has been licensed for more than a week who hasn't heard the ruckus on the bands during contests nor hasn't been privy to the rivalry between contestors and non-contestors.

I guess it all depends.  I (Even after a week of being licensed) was shocked and awed by the "ruckus" (I don't call it "ruckus", I call it "bands being used to their fullest") during contests weekends, and had nary a clue what was really going on until I correlated contest dates with what I was hearing.  Took a while for it to connect Smiley

Quote
I used to be a non-contestor a few years back and hated the wekends when there was a big contest because it meant I was probably going to be forced off to a WARC band.

I, personally, prefer the WARC bands (Except for 60 M, not sure about my signal output, so I don't want to risk it).

Quote
When I realized that I could easily work in the contests just for fun, several things happened to me:

1) My confirmed DXCC count has almost doubled in only about 4 years - I am at 230 worked and 210 confirmed.
2) My code speed has risen back to a very comfortable 20 wpm - for many years I let my CW usage lapse and got rusty to where 5 wpm would have been a struggle.
3) My station efficiency has improved by the very reason I want to do my best with what I have in the contests - I do not have a powerhouse station. I have the typical small station with a triband yagi at 40' with a older TS940S radio and a Ameritron AL-811 amplifier. Sure I could go out and buy the big gun stuff but I have lots of fun with the current setup. I have learned to use it much better than before and my resulting improvement in scores shows it.

That's excellent!

Quote
If a station wants to ragchew on the contest weekends, there are plenty of places to do so, on both the old bands and the WARC bands.

But, nothing is preventing one from looking to ragchew on the old bands, either.  Shared spectrum Smiley

Quote
For new guys, I would highly recommend that they look at their station configuration and use what they have to learn with and see where they actually need to improve the equipment list instead of rushing out to buy whizband do-it-all gear.

Don't disagree on this point.

Quote
CW with a soundcard interface is a breeze and you're code speed will just naturally increase as you proceed along. RTTY is fun too and learning to use it in contesting will improve your abilities for ragchewing and vice versa. Put your best signal out and you will get results.

And, one can do all this without contesting as well.

Quote
As to getting poo'ed on by contestors, if you go looking for it, you'll find it. Going out to mess with someone has risks in all aspects of life and if anyone wants to try and have a ragchew with a station knowing very well that that station is in a contest, well, if you get poo'ed on - so be it.

Poo-poo on whomever you like.  All people in this hobby have different aims in it.  However, realize that poo-pooing on someone for only seeking out ragchewing, even, god-forbid, on a contest weekend on the old bands doesn't generate any congeniality.

Quote
I find it in the worst kind of poor sportmanship to do that sort of thing.

Not everyone considers amateur radio to be a sport.

Quote
You know Corey, looking at your resume, I would think a really intelligent person like yourself would see the folly in that sort of, well for the lack of a better definition, harassment and it does no one any good and only creates animosity among the fraternity of hams. We have enough issues to deal with from external forces who would love to have our spectrum and causing hate and problems among ourselves is counterproductive.

Rag chewing on a contest weekend, on a non-WARC band is "harassment"?  Really?  Or, are you pointing that at myself?

I surely hope not.  I'll be one of the first to defend contestors doing what they consider to be fun in this hobby.  It's a radiosport (Maybe exclusively, or in combination with whatever else they do) for them.  And, contestors have just as much rights to the bands as non-contestors.

Quote
73 and maybe I'll catch you for a ragchew or in a contest someday,

Gene W5DQ
 

Hopefully.  I'm on 30 meters most of the time Smiley  Sometimes 20.  Infrequently, other bands.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2011, 09:07:48 AM »


Rag chewing on a contest weekend, on a non-WARC band is "harassment"?  Really?  Or, are you pointing that at myself?

I surely hope not.  I'll be one of the first to defend contestors doing what they consider to be fun in this hobby.  It's a radiosport (Maybe exclusively, or in combination with whatever else they do) for them.  And, contestors have just as much rights to the bands as non-contestors.


No sir, it wasn't anything personal toward you and I think you took my response slightly out of context. The intended comment meaning was if someone forcably tried to interupt a contesting station by trying to draw them into a general ragchew knowing good and well that that station was in the contest by (heaven forbid ....) listening before transmitting, then I would consider that a form of harassment. Of course this is a personal opinion and to each their own.

Whatever one chooses to do in ham radio, have a fun time doing it as it is what you make of it; hobby, sport, vocation or pasttime.

Gene W5DQ ..... OUT
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
N1DVJ
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2011, 07:37:08 AM »

Real programmers whistle into the modem! Grin
Years ago (in the 60's) a kid named, I think, Steve Engrasio, or something like that, was rumored to be able to whistle and hum at the same time to activate DTMF tones in the Bell trunk System.  But I don't know that for a fact.  He was one of the early 'phone freaks'

I DID know a trombone instructor that could hum a different note than he played on the horn and it sounded like a whole chord being played...

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AE4RV
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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2011, 07:44:16 AM »

Real programmers whistle into the modem! Grin
Years ago (in the 60's) a kid named, I think, Steve Engrasio, or something like that, was rumored to be able to whistle and hum at the same time to activate DTMF tones in the Bell trunk System.  But I don't know that for a fact.  He was one of the early 'phone freaks'

I DID know a trombone instructor that could hum a different note than he played on the horn and it sounded like a whole chord being played...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joybubbles
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KA2UUP
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2011, 09:32:37 AM »

If it was done repeatedly, then the operator needs to learn something.  However, it may have been justa  simple mistake.
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