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Author Topic: Are Hams prepared for a nuclear accident?  (Read 29331 times)
KG4YMC
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Posts: 297




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« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2011, 07:28:50 PM »

could be used as an incentive to upgrade, radiation only affects  tec and general portion of band. would just be my luck, ok , I commented again, didn't lie, just " misspoke" have a good night , and great dx 73s folks, keep  your humor , the onely way to get thru  this crazy world, and Jesus . kg4ymc
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2011, 07:48:00 PM »

To answer the original question, yes! They are radio activeShocked
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K1CJS
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« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2011, 06:30:46 AM »

MOST hams don't belong within a mile of ANY emergency event--let alone a NUCLEAR emergency event!
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AE6ZW
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Posts: 100


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« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2011, 01:21:47 AM »

it seems like in Japan ham radio was more useful communication personal basis such as communication between family member, etc.  when cell phone goes down.  military did most of serious emcomm.
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KI4SDY
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« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2011, 05:02:28 PM »

In case of a nuclear attack or disaster, you will know where the dangerous areas are without geiger counters or radiation badges.  All you have to do is look for the sick and dead people!  Cry
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KB8VUL
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Posts: 118




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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2011, 05:04:39 PM »

There were a couple of EMCOMM clowns that were talking about EMP testing their hammie rigs on the local repeater a few months back.  They were trying to get information on how to conduct the testing in hammie fashion. (AKA do it for free)  I almost told them to connect the antenna to a 240 power source and see how it reacted.

Here's the deal.  EMCOMM is for almost all reasonable situations dead.  At the point that the FEMA director is asking for hammie assistance, things will be so bad that there will not be anybody to talk to anyway.  The hard truth is this.  Radio communications equipment will be like gas and food at the point that all other sources of public safety and public service communications have failed.  Either the police will take your radio gear or someone with a gun will take not only your gear but your food, ad anything else they choose to. 

I don't have a go kit, I have a go away kit, consistent of several arms and ammunition.  It makes those that I don't want around go away.  In one manner or another.
You clowns that have some grand idea of being a hero.  Well your family needs to come first, then you close neighbors.  As far as the rest of humanity... Sorry but we're not home right now.  Please leave a number where you can be reached and we will return your call AFTER the rapture.
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RUSTYSTUFF
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2011, 03:56:17 PM »

We'll the last thing I'm worried about is radiation.

Anyone who was alive in the 50's 60's and 70's has been exposed to so much of it and they all dident die.

Heck, hanford used to release large quantites of highly radioactive gases into the air when it rained/snowed/etc just to see where it would go and what it would do.

There are places in the SW that are MORE radioactive and japan is, was and ever will be.

In Idaho They built a test reactor to do material testing, and they were unshilded, put out tons of radiation(might have been a few hundred MW of power), enough that anything within the 1000ft radius fence would die almost instalty( bugs would fall out of the air), animals were instaly taxidermied. So Don't worry a bit more radiation wouldent kill you if it hasnt allready.


Edit: don't forget that almost all cinderblocks, Concrete, granite Etc is pretty Hot stuff, In the gamma range too.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 08:24:33 PM by RUSTYSTUFF » Logged
KF5GWN
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Posts: 24




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« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2011, 04:51:39 PM »


Here's the deal.  EMCOMM is for almost all reasonable situations dead.  At the point that the FEMA director is asking for hammie assistance, things will be so bad that there will not be anybody to talk to anyway.  The hard truth is this.  Radio communications equipment will be like gas and food at the point that all other sources of public safety and public service communications have failed.  Either the police will take your radio gear or someone with a gun will take not only your gear but your food, ad anything else they choose to. 

That may well be the case in your neighborhood but not everywhere.  EMCOMM is quite active down in hurricane country.  Some groups have very warm relations with FEMA who paid for our gear with grant money and the local police who in some cases maintain our trailers and provide fuel for our generators.  They even stock the trailer with food and drinks and provide security for us if we ask for it.  Your statement about someone with a gun showing up to take stuff seems to assume that they are the only one present with a gun.  That may be the case in places like Chicago, but that would be a losing bet in Texas.
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W2KYM
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Posts: 19




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« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2011, 07:44:11 AM »


Here's the deal.  EMCOMM is for almost all reasonable situations dead.  At the point that the FEMA director is asking for hammie assistance, things will be so bad that there will not be anybody to talk to anyway.  The hard truth is this.  Radio communications equipment will be like gas and food at the point that all other sources of public safety and public service communications have failed.  Either the police will take your radio gear or someone with a gun will take not only your gear but your food, ad anything else they choose to. 

That may well be the case in your neighborhood but not everywhere.  EMCOMM is quite active down in hurricane country.  Some groups have very warm relations with FEMA who paid for our gear with grant money and the local police who in some cases maintain our trailers and provide fuel for our generators.  They even stock the trailer with food and drinks and provide security for us if we ask for it.  Your statement about someone with a gun showing up to take stuff seems to assume that they are the only one present with a gun.  That may be the case in places like Chicago, but that would be a losing bet in Texas.

Both points here are well taken. A particular ham radio organization likes to promote the fact that when there is trouble ham radio will save the day. And it's true in most aspects. When the hurricane / tornado / biological disaster hits, the ones who'll be operating in the affected area will be people from non affected areas since the people affected will either have 1) No ham equipment 2) No home / place to operate from 3) Will make sure their family needs are taken care of first or 4) All of the above. I'm sure there's the "HT Hero" (damn I like that name!!) who will run to grab their "Go Kit" and setup while their family will be scraping whats left of the home and getting food from wherever they can find it. There's plenty of them. I personally know a few in my area....

Just my 2 cents.

73's to all!
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LA9XSA
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2011, 01:38:07 PM »

Here's the deal.  EMCOMM is for almost all reasonable situations dead.  At the point that the FEMA director is asking for hammie assistance, things will be so bad that there will not be anybody to talk to anyway.
Stop assuming that every emergency needing activation is The Nuclear Zombie Apocalypse and the end of the world as we know it. Amateur radio support for emergencies activates several times each year (hurricanes, wildfires, backhoes cutting cables, blackouts), for decades, and the world hasn't ended yet. After the tsunami and nuclear accident in Japan, amateurs also did their part, mostly on VHF and UHF. The main point for amateur radio support is whether auxiliary communications are needed, and the way you operate is fairly similar across various types of emergencies.
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KB8VUL
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Posts: 118




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« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2011, 01:46:08 PM »

Here's the deal.  EMCOMM is for almost all reasonable situations dead.  At the point that the FEMA director is asking for hammie assistance, things will be so bad that there will not be anybody to talk to anyway.
Stop assuming that every emergency needing activation is The Nuclear Zombie Apocalypse and the end of the world as we know it. Amateur radio support for emergencies activates several times each year (hurricanes, wildfires, backhoes cutting cables, blackouts), for decades, and the world hasn't ended yet. After the tsunami and nuclear accident in Japan, amateurs also did their part, mostly on VHF and UHF. The main point for amateur radio support is whether auxiliary communications are needed, and the way you operate is fairly similar across various types of emergencies.

Well, here's my experience with it.  I had some EC clown that was visiting from Louisiana beating on the table we were sitting at and crying about how FEMA wouldn't listen to the hams  down there.  I sat and listened to HF intently as they described things that I was watching on Fox News (yeah, I am right too).

We have some clowns that were claiming because they were in ARES they could run red and blue (law enforcement in Ohio) on their vehicles.  One of those douchebags was complaining about having the city police tell him to gt back in his car and would ticket him if he caught him again pulling off to the road during a snow storm checking on drivers that were on the phone with 911 asking if he could call for assistance with his ham radio. 
He had no more sense than to INTERRUPT a call to emergency services so he could play hero.  Best part was he was all dressed up in a reflective vest and has his ARES ID with him trying to look important.  Thouse of you in areas that get snow know that if you see something like that, you continue down the road and call it in.  You don't pull over, putting yourself at risk of being hit or causing an accident for a car that slid off the road. 

If it's a major accident, and you have some basic first aid training, that's one thing.  But to INTERRUPT an active call to emergency services so you can they to feel important is another.  And the best art was he was MAD because an officer told him to not be stopping on icy roads and getting out of his car.  This protects him, and other drivers from him and his stupidity and he was mad about it.

This is the crap we get here.  The go run around the college football games for free so the college doesn't have to PAY someone to do it.  The sit along side the road for bike tours, again so no one has to be paid to do it. And they get equipment via grants (my tax money) so they can run around and contribute NOTHING to actual emergency services because they don't want or need the help.
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KF5GWN
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Posts: 24




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« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2011, 08:47:56 PM »

Like any other population group you are going to have your "Ricky Rescue" types.  I dealt with them while I was a volunteer firefighter, while I was with the Red Cross and during the fifteen years I worked in a police communications center.  But you seem to be painting with a very broad brush here.  We had two ham operators that volunteered every week in our 9-1-1 center.  Friday and Saturday evenings they worked in our message routing center for us freeing up another operator to take 9-1-1 calls.  We regarded them as highly valued assets.

As far as monitoring marathon and similar courses, we again regarded the volunteers as great assets.  Every intersection or check point that was staffed by a volunteer was one more officer available to respond on calls for service.  Or one fewer officer we had to pay overtime to.  When budgets are tight that is a very significant contribution to emergency services.  Especially if the event is on a holiday!  By my union contract if I worked overtime on a holiday that was my regular day off I was costing the taxpayers more than a dollar per minute.  And I was not even close to the top of the pay scale.  And of course voluntary overtime is offered by seniority so the guys that are offered it first just happen to be the highest paid. 

As for the red and blue lights, the most common offenders we had in Maryland were security guards and volunteer firefighters.  Some states allow volunteers to operate colored lights when responding to the station or on a call, some don't.  In Maryland only registered emergency vehicles were allowed flashing or oscillating lights, or a red light visible from the front of the vehicle.  Blue lights were for law enforcement only.

The government is not obligated to give grant money to everyone who asks for it.  In fact they frequently deny grant applications from police and fire departments.  So it would seem that the powers that be that give this grant money out to ham groups for equipment have a different opinion on the value of hams to emergency services.

Just because you personally have had a couple of bad experiences with Ricky Rescue types is really no more reason to stereotype than having had a couple of bad experiences with people of a particular skin color or political persuasion. 
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K1CJS
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Posts: 6034




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« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2011, 12:24:20 PM »

....Just because you personally have had a couple of bad experiences with Ricky Rescue types is really no more reason to stereotype than having had a couple of bad experiences with people of a particular skin color or political persuasion. 

And there you have the problem in a nutshell.  Most law enforcement or recognized emergency services personnel have the "Ricky Rescue" idea of ANY ham or volunteer EMCOMM people that show up.  THAT is the stereotype that has to be fought by any legitimate group that offers their services.

The way to do that is to approach these people BEFORE there IS an actual emergency situation, and volunteer then, ASKING if there is any way that you or your group could be of service.  Don't just show up during an emergency event and demand to be used.  The only thing they'll use you for is to use your pants as a polishing cloth for the toe of their boot.
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KB0RDL
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2011, 12:37:08 AM »

One of the major issues following any disaster of any kind is having enough food and water.  It's not hard to get a couple of weeks ahead with simple grocery store food but keep in mind that electricity and water might be shut off.  Simple gallon jugs of water run about $1.00 each and you would need one per person per day.  A propane cook stove could be very important but it's better to buy food that doesn't need to be cooked, which is the case with most canned food.  Most propane stoves will run for about 4 hours on a l lb cannister of propane.  Candles are far cheaper than batteries for light but they won't work in radios or flashlights so get batteries ahead as well.  A simple transistor radio can be very important for news.  In any event, think ahead and plan appropriately. 
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LA9XSA
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2011, 12:33:50 PM »

Thouse of you in areas that get snow know that if you see something like that, you continue down the road and call it in.  You don't pull over, putting yourself at risk of being hit or causing an accident for a car that slid off the road.  

If it's a major accident, and you have some basic first aid training, that's one thing.  But to INTERRUPT an active call to emergency services so you can they to feel important is another.
Interrupting the 911 call is obviously out of line, but up until he's established that the person is OK and the phone is working, he didn't do too poorly - providing he parked his vehicle safely (an issue that storm spotters also should watch themselves on). Wearing the vest was actually a plus - if he was a 100% moron he'd be wearing snow camo instead:
http://imgur.com/GXMOt

We get lots of snow here in Norway too, as you can guess, but here
- All drivers are required to pass first aid and CPR training to get a drivers' license.*
- All cars are required to carry reflective vests, to be worn in case of accidents or breakdowns.
- Everyone are required by law to assist people who have had an accident - if we leave people for dead without checking first, we can be jailed or fined for it. I know on your side of the pond you might risk getting sued instead if you help, thus Good Samaritan laws.
- Sometimes we even pull each other out of the ditch.

As for the non-emergency public service events, they actually provide training in running directed nets. So yes that football game or bike ride will actually help prepare hams for helping out with communications in case of a nuclear emergency, because there are so many similarities in how you operate. There will be some differences of course, so if there's a nuclear facility in the area, some of the training scenarios for emergency drills should include the effects of nuclear dispersion; most of that will be for the civil defense officials to consider, but there might be provisions made for things like radioactive shielding or remote operation of the radio station, or perhaps switching operators frequently to reduce radiation dosages.

*: This is one of the three main factors in Norway having the highest cardiac arrest survival rate in the world, despite its rugged terrain and long distances. The other two factors are the quality of hospital heart departments, and the ambulance service which has transformed from a transport service to a paramedic service.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 12:42:05 PM by LA9XSA » Logged
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