Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: cc&r's and hoa's  (Read 18308 times)
KC8GPD
Member

Posts: 49




Ignore
« on: March 24, 2011, 12:21:41 PM »

i have seen many arguments for hoa's existence. the biggest and most prominent one being to protect house values.

so i'm going to ask this question and let everyone ponder on it. most people move into hoa neighborhoods because they can't afford a normal house in a non hoa neighborhood.

well if the hoa does such a good job at protecting house values then how come its so much cheaper to buy a house in an hoa then it is in a non hoa neighborhood?

i think that kinda blows that theory right out of the water.

i thought about this because my friend is buying in an hoa neighborhood because the houses cost about 1/2 that (100k or under) of a non hoa neigborhood (close to 200k or more).

Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3835




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 02:18:19 PM »

I've been observing and saying this for years.

I think what keeps the prices down is the hidden costs of living in a restricted home.

In a non-restricted home, just to own the place, you pay mortgage (principal and interest), real estate taxes (various kinds), insurance and maintenance. Of those, the interest and RE taxes are deductible on your taxes. If you live in the same place long enough and keep making the payments, the mortgage will eventually go away, and if you make the right kind of home improvements the maintenance can often be greatly reduced.

In a restricted home, just to own the place, you pay mortgage (principal and interest), real estate taxes (various kinds), insurance, maintenance and HOA fees. Of those, the interest and RE taxes are deductible on your taxes. If you live in the same place long enough and keep making the payments, the mortgage will eventually go away - but the taxes and HOA fees will not. Worse, you have to get approval to make almost any home improvements, and their cost is often raised by having to please the HOA. Often the maintenance can't be reduced because you can't change the property enough.

IOW, the restricted house costs less to buy because it costs more to own.

Now, to be fair, you have to compare apples to apples. You have to find comparable homes near each other, and that's not always easy.

What does $100K or $200K buy in your area?

73 de Jim, N2EY
Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 169




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 02:41:50 PM »

Most homes being built today have HOAs and CC&Rs for several reasons. Generally homes are built by developers in housing tracts. The big reason is that the developer gets economy of scale by having the foundation crew move down the street followed by the framing crew, followed by the plumbing crew, followed by the electrical crew, etc. Very few homes are built by a carpenter who is putting up a single home as the price is too prohibitive. When the developer applies to get the land subdivided into plots many, many local governments won’t approve the plan unless there are CC&Rs with an HOA. The reason is that this way the developer puts in things like tot lots, tennis courts, swimming pools, etc. At the same time the local government requires the developer to put in roads, curbs, storm sewers, sidewalks, etc. None of this costs the local government. When the development is underway, the developer runs the HOA. They keep the early buyers from painting their home purple with green stripes. And ultimately the local government does not have to deal with neighbors fighting over uncut grass, cars being rebuilt in the driveways, etc. The HOA becomes the de facto controller of these things.

There are those who post things questioning anyone who buys a home in one of the neighborhoods. As I said, generally the homes are cheaper as they as mass produced. And most people I know don’t buy a home strictly for the ability to put up an antenna. There are many factors such as quality of schools, distance to commute to work, etc.

There are also those who argue that homes without HOAs and CC&Rs are worth more than those without. It is also true that mass production of automobiles makes a cheaper car than one that is custom built. CC&Rs and HOAs have nothing to do with it. It is virtually impossible to find a mass-produced home that has been built in the last 20+ years without CC&Rs and an HOA. This is not true for custom-built homes. And custom-built homes or homes in older neighborhoods without CC&Rs and HOAs offer problems. For example, older neighborhoods often have schools that are less desirable as the people who live in these neighborhoods are past the child rearing age and therefore don’t want to have higher taxes to support the schools.
Logged
KE4DRN
Member

Posts: 3714




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 05:46:42 PM »

hi

I live in a HOA development for last 22 years, the HOA dues is $55 quarterly.
This pays for the new pvc fencing and the new brickwork to replace the original
builder wooden signs at the entrances, electrical lights and landscaping.
We recently added a security man from 3PM to 8AM seven days a week.

The swim club is separate from the HOA and if you want to join up it is expensive
and the pool is only open from May 1 to Sept 15. But you do get to play tennis year round.
it is cheaper to join the YMCA and have  year round use of the facilities.

I can work on my cars anytime I like, just don't  park them on the grass or in the backyard,
this is not an HOA rule but existing codes from County as well as the City of Raleigh, NC

The only thing you need to file a 'permission slip' for is changing the color of the paint or
adding a new fence unless you are replacing existing fence with exact same type.

Now I can't have an outside antenna or tower but there are no restrictions on portable
basketball hoops in your driveway! 
It's a Final Four thing down here in the Triangle, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill.

73 james


Logged
KF5GWN
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 07:58:24 PM »

Well lets see what I get for my HOA dues......
Swimming pool, tennis courts (lighted), basketball courts (covered) softball and soccer fields, skateboard park,two playgrounds, fitness center, (all walking distance from home) trash and recycling pickup, landscaping of the common areas, walking distance to award winning elementary and middle schools, a neighborhood enclosed by brick wall/ornamental steel fence (helps keep the gators out) a guard shack at the front gate that is manned 24/7/365 and controls access (no solicitors allowed) and a Deputy Sheriff under contract to patrol our neighborhood and do speed enforcement in and around the neighborhood.
For less than $100 per month
Now if I was two developments over I would also have privileges at two golf courses.

Logged
N0YXB
Member

Posts: 302




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 09:27:33 PM »

I am fortunate enough to live in a subdivision built about 20 years ago and there's no HOA.

Nearby there is a nice city park with a swimming pool, tennis courts, basketball courts, softball and soccer fields, playgrounds and walking trails.  We have trash and recycling pickup, Christmas tree recycling, we are within walking distance to award winning schools, and best of all no neighbors who can tell me I can't put up antennas.  Oh yeah, we have police protection too.

All this for $0 additional per month.  I'll pass on HOAs.

Vince
Logged

Vince
WB2WIK
Member

Posts: 20542




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 10:13:07 AM »

I am fortunate enough to live in a subdivision built about 20 years ago and there's no HOA.

Nearby there is a nice city park with a swimming pool, tennis courts, basketball courts, softball and soccer fields, playgrounds and walking trails.  We have trash and recycling pickup, Christmas tree recycling, we are within walking distance to award winning schools, and best of all no neighbors who can tell me I can't put up antennas.  Oh yeah, we have police protection too.

All this for $0 additional per month.  I'll pass on HOAs.

Vince


That's kind of the way it is here, too.

All the "HOA" facilities described above are standard for our municipality.  I have my own pool and spa, open for our use 24 hours a day.  The public schools my kids attended are all rated "10" out of a possible 10 on Greatschools.org.

I lived in "guard gated" communities before and hope to never live in one again.  What a PITA, not only for me, but for visitors.  Everybody always complained about that system.  I'll never forget what happened when there was a power outage and the electric gates wouldn't operate. Tongue

Logged
KF5GWN
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 12:15:43 PM »

I am fortunate enough to live in a subdivision built about 20 years ago and there's no HOA.

Nearby there is a nice city park with a swimming pool, tennis courts, basketball courts, softball and soccer fields, playgrounds and walking trails.  We have trash and recycling pickup, Christmas tree recycling, we are within walking distance to award winning schools, and best of all no neighbors who can tell me I can't put up antennas.  Oh yeah, we have police protection too.

All this for $0 additional per month.  I'll pass on HOAs.

Vince

And what do you pay in city taxes per year?  Any "user fee's" to reserve those fields?
Lots of governments are cutting back on services because of budget shortfalls including laying off police officers.  I don't have to worry about that. And since I have no intention of putting up any big antennas, I am quite happy with my situation.   
Logged
W3DDF
Member

Posts: 74




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 12:34:59 PM »

If one has no need for such items as swimming pool, tennis courts (lighted), basketball courts (covered) softball and soccer fields, skateboard park, two playgrounds, fitness center and other such ammenities you are stuck paying for them with mandatory HOA fees. Not to mention some group of individuals telling you what color you can paint your house or if you can erect a shed, fence or antenna for that matter.  No thank you to HOAs.
Logged
KF5GWN
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 12:52:03 PM »

That's the beauty of this country, freedom to choose.  I could have bought a house in the neighborhood across the street from my neighborhood and had none of that stuff and paid no HOA fees.  But then I would have to pay for trash pick up (if I wanted it) and a pool membership and gym membership (if I wanted them).  That is the great part of living in an unincorporated part of the county.  All that stuff is optional.  If you live in a city you pay for city parks and pools with you tax dollars whether you use them or not.

And of course, at least my HOA is a democracy.  If I want to change something and the Architectural Review Committee says no, all I have to do is get a majority to vote my way and the rules are changed.
Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3835




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 02:04:29 PM »

That's the beauty of this country, freedom to choose. 

Yes, and I hope it stays that way.

But as time goes by, the available nonrestricted homes become a smaller and smaller part of the market. This is particularly true in places where most of the housing is relatively new tract housing.

And of course, at least my HOA is a democracy.  If I want to change something and the Architectural Review Committee says no, all I have to do is get a majority to vote my way and the rules are changed.

But not all HOAs are like that. Often it can take 100% agreement to change a rule - and what are the chances of that?

Worse, some restrictions are designed to "run with the land" and be non-changeable.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Logged
KE4DRN
Member

Posts: 3714




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 04:48:26 PM »

hi

I think the HOA thing is just another way to keep lower income
people from moving into a neighborhood.

I may easily qualify for a mortgage and have a the cash to put down
but when they run the numbers an extra $200 or more a month for
the HOA dues can break the budget.

For all the complimentary memberships in the golf and pool clubs,
the cost is built into the purchase price of the home.

Perhaps I can hide a vertical inside of a pvc basketball hoop?

73 james
Logged
WD4HXG
Member

Posts: 182




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 09:28:16 PM »


I think the HOA thing is just another way to keep lower income
people from moving into a neighborhood.



In the Northern Virginia area homes not governed by
CCR's or HOA's are of typically two main groups. One
is older homes in areas that are failing. The other is
the home type that sits on 2 plus acre lots and has
over 2000 square feet of living space with attached
three care garage. The HOA communities as pointed
out by others tend to be cookie cutter construction
and lower cost thus they really open up new home
ownership to many more people than would
otherwise be possible.

Although some HOA's have very high dues, $200.00
a month sounds more like a condominium association
unless it is a gated community of McMansions. If you
really want the socialist community utopia experience
try a condo association.

Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3835




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2011, 07:56:54 AM »

If you
really want the socialist community utopia experience
try a condo association.

Socialist?

How is a condo association socialist?

Socialism, by definition, is when the government owns and runs things. Condo associations aren't government; in fact, one of the reasons for their existence is the "small government" mantra. (If the condo association makes the rules and provides the services, government doesn't have to. Lower taxes and less government regulation.)

One of other main reasons given for HOAs, CC&Rs and condo associations is "preserving property values" for the owners.  Since the owners are private citizens, and the rules are private contracts, that clearly makes them a CAPITALIST thing.

Listen carefully to almost any real estate developer person and you'll soon realize that they're all about unregulated free-market capitalism. Regulations like zoning, building codes, setbacks, mortgage lending rules, etc., all cost them money and limit their flexibility. They'd much rather have a free rein to control things via HOAs, CC&Rs and condo associations.

Maybe what you meant was "enforced conformity" - in which case condo associations are certainly a good example.

73 de Jim, N2EY  
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 01:21:35 PM by N2EY » Logged
KG4RUL
Member

Posts: 2685


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2011, 12:44:28 PM »

I am fortunate enough to live in a subdivision built about 20 years ago and there's no HOA.

Nearby there is a nice city park with a swimming pool, tennis courts, basketball courts, softball and soccer fields, playgrounds and walking trails.  We have trash and recycling pickup, Christmas tree recycling, we are within walking distance to award winning schools, and best of all no neighbors who can tell me I can't put up antennas.  Oh yeah, we have police protection too.

All this for $0 additional per month.  I'll pass on HOAs.

Vince

And what do you pay in city taxes per year?  Any "user fee's" to reserve those fields?
Lots of governments are cutting back on services because of budget shortfalls including laying off police officers.  I don't have to worry about that. And since I have no intention of putting up any big antennas, I am quite happy with my situation.   

AND you still pay the city taxes whether or not you are in an HOA.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!