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Author Topic: TAP Code legal to use ?  (Read 6706 times)
AE6ZW
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« on: June 16, 2011, 11:20:23 AM »

I come cross this you tube video  called TAP CODE
http://youtu.be/b-3F_zuQ1Qk
I think it is wonderful way to use CW mode for HAM RADIO for beginner.
by making 6 X 6 , it can send all A-Z and 0-9,  my question is is it legal to use  ? 
I suppose if I establish and publish code , use standard matrix, it is legal, since it is not cypher and encryptions.

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K7KBN
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 04:15:06 PM »

Why not just learn the International Morse Code?  Roll Eyes
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
K8AXW
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 08:53:47 PM »

About the only good for "tap code" is for POWs, people in prison or kids playing.  Perhaps even for those who can't hear or speak. 

Otherwise, 7KBN is right on.  As for using it on the air, the question would be WHY?  It could even be considered a cypher and could possibly be illegal.  (It would be necessary to figure out or "decipher" the information being sent)



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AE6ZW
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 12:05:29 AM »

yes, it is good for those who can not speak or hear.  I was wondering, if there are way for them to communicate them easily.  Morse Code take some time to learn, but TAP CODE, it only takes several minutes to explain even to 5 years old kids.  I was thinking method to people to use CW mode, which may include TAP CODE.  it is certainly easier than learning sign language or Morse Code.  I guess, once TAP CODE chart is published may be on web site, it probably no longer consider cipher , since there are so many digital modes available and their protocol are open.  I guess TAP CODE is manual method of sending digital code.  I have created 6x6 version, it nicely fit all A to Z and 0-9 into 6x6 format
http://aa7ol.no-ip.info/niko/amateur_radio/tap-code-01.html
may be 7x7 format can be more useful with punctuation, and sign like @ , ?, / ,+, -,  '.'  etc
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:42:36 AM by AE6ZW » Logged
N2EY
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 04:35:06 AM »

There is NO reason to use "tap code" in amateur radio. While it may seem easy to explain, it is no easier to use or learn then Morse Code.

73 de Jim, N2EY

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AE4RV
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 05:50:21 AM »

It's not really practical for radio use until both parties memorize it. In that light, it's probably more difficult to learn than Morse Code. It's not optimized like Morse Code where oft used letters are shorter.  I call shenanigans. Next.

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K3STX
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 06:41:37 AM »

Is it legal on the air, I guess it is (as long as you ID in International Morse Code or by voice). Like like American Morse is legal on the air. No offense intended, but it seems like an idiotic system. A five year old only "knows" it because he has the grid right in front of him. Remove the grid from his sight and see how he does.

I really don't understand why people think learning Morse is so hard. It took me a week or so at age 14 (way back when) and my 7 year old daughter learned it in about the same amount of time. 15 minutes a day for a week and anyone will have almost the entire alphabet.

To give you credit, I have never even heard of this before. I know prisoners have used MORSE to communicate, but never knew tap code was used.

paul
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AE4RV
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2011, 06:49:32 AM »

Actually Morse is quite difficult to tap out due to the necessity of two different elements, long and short. The tap code was used by POWS in Vietnam and WWII. And maybe/probably Morse was used, too, I don't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_code#History

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N3OX
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2011, 08:51:14 AM »

Tap code has several advantages for POWs, etc.

Like AE4RV says you don't need to differentiate between "short" and "long."  You don't have to work with the WHOLE alphabet if you don't need it.    And possibly the most important thing, it IS intended to be a cipher!  That seems to be its main advantage.

Quote
once TAP CODE chart is published may be on web site, it probably no longer consider cipher

Sure, I agree with that interpretation.  If all the people using tap code are using YOUR chart, it's not a cipher.  But it's also harder than Morse... or even if someone has an easier time learning to be fluent in it, they won't have anyone to talk to.  If they learn Morse they'll have tons.

Morse would have been a terrible choice and probably still is for actual POWs, etc.  There's always the chance that someone knows Morse and would just sit there listening to the prisoners' communications to learn their plans or other intelligence.  With tap code, unless someone heard the initial setup, they wouldn't understand it.  The prisoners could get in trouble for communicating, but they wouldn't give away any important intelligence until someone had figured out the cipher.  Not hard, but way harder than just having some guard who knows Morse code.

Heck, I've got a ham buddy who back in the 90's was tapping Morse insults about the teacher to a school friend of his (middle school or early high school) and the teacher called 'em up after class and showed them the paper where he'd been writing down what they were saying.

Lots of people know Morse.  This is a problem if you're trying to secretly communicate.  But it's a positive thing if you're trying to do low-power human-decodable communication over CW.
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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
AE6ZW
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 10:29:46 AM »

thanks for very interesting comments,  I also forgot about American Morse Code.  and did not know history of TAP CODES was used in WW2 and Vietnam War.   I tested how long it takes to send TAP code, for me, sending it some what slow, it took about average of 3 seconds to TAP 1 character.  which is 20 characters per second.  it is about same as 5 WPM.  so speed was not too bad. ( for beginner )    yes, beginner must have standardized  decoding chart.   and by changing order of chart around , it can be send as cipher. ( not for hams )   I agree with that Morse Code is much more efficient way, however, about only 1 out of 40 HAMS I know uses Morse Code.    many of them learned Morse Code once to pass exam.  but, many of them can not use them. many of them forgot even what they learned because they never use them.  I have read FCC rule about IDentification, if this TAP CODE is considered Digital Mode even it is generated manually, it can Identify using tap code format.  like many other digital mode PSK31, MSK, FSK, packet, etc. I guess it is not against the law to generate digital code manually.   I just thought Tap Code can be used mostly as demonstration purpose for any one to able to communicate with CW only rigs.  just as Morse Code CW,  it can be heard when signal is weak, where SSB voice communication is not possible.
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AE4RV
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2011, 10:49:44 AM »

Well, then I'd suggest PSK if you want something efficient and different. Or learn Morse. Tap code table look up sounds tedious and probably won't capture any imaginations that have been exposed to modern gadgets and networks.
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K3STX
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 02:07:07 PM »


Morse would have been a terrible choice and probably still is for actual POWs, etc.

It worked out for this guy! Pretty amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgelmcOdS38

paul
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AE4RV
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 03:20:25 PM »


Morse would have been a terrible choice and probably still is for actual POWs, etc.

It worked out for this guy! Pretty amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgelmcOdS38

paul

I'd read about that but never saw the video - thanks.
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KE3WD
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 03:49:02 PM »

No numbers, just alpha. 

And - man, that would be one incredibly loooooooong short QSO...


A POW has got time on his or her side, among other issues.  The tap code works only because there is no differentiation between dit and dah when tapping on walls, pipes or floors.  Consider that plenty of Viet era pilots knew the Morse Code, if not from their military training, then from Boy Scouts, Ham Radio, etc. 


Nah.  Not for Amateur Radio communications. 


This wheel does not need reinventing.



73
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K3ANG
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 05:46:52 PM »

Personally, I see nothing wrong with TAP code on the air.
I've heard old American Morse (aka, railroad morse) on the air, so why not TAP code?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Morse_code
RR morse is close to radio morse.  If you look at their character sets, there are a lot of similarities.

I don't know who said it, but I agree that a QSO in TAP morse would be one loooooooooong QSO.
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