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Author Topic: Advance licence grandfather to Extra class  (Read 53446 times)
K9AIM
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2012, 06:13:37 PM »

Hello,
I have been a advance class operator since 1993 and I advance the old way Novice written then 5 WPM code, tech written,  General written and 13 WPM code, then the hard test of Advance testing. Is or was there a grandfather to advance to extra, like the novice to tech no code or testing.
If not I have been working on the extra for a few days, and see that most of the question are less technical than the advance written was oh well if not.

Tom KF0KR

No, and further it would make WAY too much sense for the FCC to grant holders of Advanced licenses the Extra CW segments of the HF bands.  That is the real draw of the Extra -- the CW segments where a lot of DX swim Smiley

btw, what the heck are RTTY stations doing below 7.050?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 06:15:30 PM by K9AIM » Logged
N2EY
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 11:03:18 AM »

Hello,
I have been a advance class operator since 1993 and I advance the old way Novice written then 5 WPM code, tech written,  General written and 13 WPM code, then the hard test of Advance testing. Is or was there a grandfather to advance to extra, like the novice to tech no code or testing.
If not I have been working on the extra for a few days, and see that most of the question are less technical than the advance written was oh well if not.

Tom KF0KR

No, and further it would make WAY too much sense for the FCC to grant holders of Advanced licenses the Extra CW segments of the HF bands.  That is the real draw of the Extra -- the CW segments where a lot of DX swim Smiley

Is it?

Look at how much additional *phone* bandspace an Extra gives. Particularly on 75.

The bigger issue is that FCC just doesn't do "free" (no test) upgrades. Time and again, their response has been something like "just pass the test, it's not that hard".

I think FCC knows that if they give Advanceds a free ride to Extra, they'll open a floodgate of folks wanting other free rides.

We're almost to the point where 9 out of 10 US hams have either a Tech, General or Extra ticket, anyway.

btw, what the heck are RTTY stations doing below 7.050?

They've been there a while. When the US 'phone band was widened down to 7.125, the foreign 'phones in R2 moved down to get away from US QRM. And the RTTY folks moved down to get away from the DX 'phones.

Etc.

btw, the name of the license class is "Advanced", not "Advance"

73 de Jim, N2EY
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K3RZB
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 12:29:07 PM »

Well, I just became a "grandfather" (for real Smiley) - and passed my Extra last week! I've been licensed since '61 and been a VERY long time since I took a FCC exam - LONG before the VE system was in place.

Without the code, the exam wasn't too difficult, or so I found..

73's

Stu, K3RZB
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K9AIM
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2012, 03:21:12 PM »

Hello,
I have been a advance class operator since 1993 and I advance the old way Novice written then 5 WPM code, tech written,  General written and 13 WPM code, then the hard test of Advance testing. Is or was there a grandfather to advance to extra, like the novice to tech no code or testing.
If not I have been working on the extra for a few days, and see that most of the question are less technical than the advance written was oh well if not.

Tom KF0KR

No, and further it would make WAY too much sense for the FCC to grant holders of Advanced licenses the Extra CW segments of the HF bands.  That is the real draw of the Extra -- the CW segments where a lot of DX swim Smiley

Is it?

Look at how much additional *phone* bandspace an Extra gives. Particularly on 75.

The bigger issue is that FCC just doesn't do "free" (no test) upgrades. Time and again, their response has been something like "just pass the test, it's not that hard".

I think FCC knows that if they give Advanceds a free ride to Extra, they'll open a floodgate of folks wanting other free rides.

We're almost to the point where 9 out of 10 US hams have either a Tech, General or Extra ticket, anyway.

I was speaking for myself.  The phone segments don't attract me-- the CW segments do (DX).  And I think giving Advanced the CW Extra privileges is no more of a free ride than giving no code Extras those segments.  It would be a nice, congruent gesture.  I won't hold my breath though...

btw, what the heck are RTTY stations doing below 7.050?

They've been there a while. When the US 'phone band was widened down to 7.125, the foreign 'phones in R2 moved down to get away from US QRM. And the RTTY folks moved down to get away from the DX 'phones.

Etc.

btw, the name of the license class is "Advanced", not "Advance"

73 de Jim, N2EY

Where does the RTTY encroachment end?  they seem to get down farther all the time...

And as for his use of 'Advance' -- I think Tom (KF0KR) just made a typo.  but if you want to be a stickler, your use of "Advanceds" above is not technically correct either  Wink

73 K9AIM ..
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W3HF
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2012, 04:21:32 PM »

but if you want to be a stickler, your use of "Advanceds" above is not technically correct either  Wink
Why? It's admittedly a shortened form of "Advanced class licensees", but it's no more incorrect than our use of Novices, Technicians, Generals, or Extras.
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K9AIM
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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2012, 04:07:51 AM »

but if you want to be a stickler, your use of "Advanceds" above is not technically correct either  Wink
Why? It's admittedly a shortened form of "Advanced class licensees", but it's no more incorrect than our use of Novices, Technicians, Generals, or Extras.


did u not see the introductory phrase? "but if you want to be a stickler"  Smiley
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W3HF
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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2012, 04:38:57 AM »

did u not see the introductory phrase? "but if you want to be a stickler"  Smiley
Yes I did. But you criticized N2EY's use of  "Advanceds" without commenting on the earlier use of "Extras."

If you are going to be a "stickler" you should apply the rules consistently.
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K9AIM
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2012, 04:50:50 AM »

If you are going to be a "stickler" you should apply the rules consistently.

right, that was my point to Jim.  I guess I could of just asked him why he corrected KF0KR on the typo 'Advance.' 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 04:52:34 AM by K9AIM » Logged
N6JSX
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2012, 08:04:42 AM »

I got my Advanced in 1993, and was holding out for grandfathering. Code comes hard to me, I was at a very comfortable 18WPM when the FCC killed code - code Killing was one of the FCC stupidest of moves but fully supported by HAM busine$$ to increase sales/memberships; ARRL/W5YI, AES/HRO, Kenwood/Icom/Yaesu/Alinco, etc!

~10yrs ago I realized there was no money to be made by grandfathering - so I took the Extra QRZ.com sample tests for one week, when I reached +90%, I toke the Extra VE test and aced it.

As I remember the Advanced test (the hardest in HAMdom) it seemed to center around repeater operations with a few VE/SSTV questions - to this day I do not understand why the FCC does not require all repeater licensees to be Extra Class. In my almost 40yrs in HAMdom I now understand there is very little logic to what the the FCC does - it is all centered around politics, white envelopes, and commissioners positioning themselves for life after the FCC! I'm wrong then I ask, who/when have been HAM licensed FCC commissioner?    

I now refer to myself and a "REAL" Advanced & "CB" Extra.
Kuby, N6JSX/8, MS-EET
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N6JSX
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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2012, 08:05:55 AM »

I got my Advanced in 1993, and was holding out for grandfathering. Code comes hard to me, I was at a very comfortable 18WPM when the FCC killed code - code Killing was one of the FCC stupidest of moves but fully supported by HAM busine$$ to increase sales/memberships; ARRL/W5YI, AES/HRO, Kenwood/Icom/Yaesu/Alinco, etc!   Huh

~10yrs ago I realized there was no money to be made by grandfathering - so I took the Extra QRZ.com sample tests for one week, when I reached +90%, I toke the Extra VE test and aced it.  Grin

As I remember the Advanced test (the hardest in HAMdom) it seemed to center around repeater operations with a few VE/SSTV questions - to this day I do not understand why the FCC does not require all repeater licensees to be Extra Class. In my almost 40yrs in HAMdom I now understand there is very little logic to what the the FCC does - it is all centered around politics, white envelopes, and commissioners positioning themselves for life after the FCC! I'm wrong then I ask, who/when have been HAM licensed FCC commissioner?   Embarrassed   

I now refer to myself and a "REAL" Advanced & "CB" Extra.  Undecided
Kuby, N6JSX/8, MS-EET
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M0HCN
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2012, 01:56:39 PM »

code Killing was one of the FCC stupidest of moves but fully supported by HAM busine$$ to increase sales/memberships; ARRL/W5YI, AES/HRO, Kenwood/Icom/Yaesu/Alinco, etc! [/b]  Huh
Stupidest? Not even close, try running with an open question pool for that title (it is very bad pedagogy as it tests memory rather then understanding)! Dropping a requirement for a mode that had fallen out of use as the common denominator between hams and the other users who are quite often the primary users of 'our' bands was actually probably overdue.

As for the old US advanced being the toughest in hamdom, meh!
Try the Japanese or even the UK advanced (our equivalent of the US extra), closed pool and even without study I can clock 90+% on the US Extra question pool, but only about 85% or so with study on the UK advanced (Which has design issues of its own, very subtle wording sometimes, it sets out to trick you, also poor test design, a further dirty trick is that the official practice paper is also rather easier then the real thing). 

I don't really understand the grandstanding about the historical tests that goes on. Sure you passed a different (and quite possibly harder) test, good for you, so what! Passing the test just says you have some certain minimum level of know how (Or at least could remember the answers then), other then that it means nothing.
Nothing wrong with saying ' I passed the old advanced exam' of course, until you start slating folks that could not take it even if they wanted to.

I know a couple of very expert weak signal UHF fanatics that never bothered with the top level exam because it gets them things that are of no value to their interests. I will instantly defer to them on matters of low noise preamps for 70cm or aerial noise temperature or whatever, NOT because of any exam, but because of their expertise. Pride in knowing how to do something difficult is far more worthy then pride in having passed an exam (Especially one with an open question pool that I suspect a determined 12 year old could fairly easily pass by rote).

Be proud of what you can make the radios do, or what you can build, or what the people you elmered have accomplished or whatever, not of what tests and exams you passed.

Regards, Dan.
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W3HF
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2012, 05:29:21 AM »

right, that was my point to Jim.  I guess I could of just asked him why he corrected KF0KR on the typo 'Advance.' 
Jim properly corrected the name of the license from Advance to Advanced, which is the term the FCC uses. KF0KR used the term "Advance" three times in his original post, so it's unlikely to have been a simple typo as you suggested.

NN6EE was the first to use the term "Extras", and you didn't correct him or any of the others that used it.

Sounds to me like you are picking on Jim specifically.
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K9AIM
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2012, 04:01:25 PM »

right, that was my point to Jim.  I guess I could of just asked him why he corrected KF0KR on the typo 'Advance.' 
Jim properly corrected the name of the license from Advance to Advanced, which is the term the FCC uses. KF0KR used the term "Advance" three times in his original post, so it's unlikely to have been a simple typo as you suggested.

NN6EE was the first to use the term "Extras", and you didn't correct him or any of the others that used it.

Sounds to me like you are picking on Jim specifically.

I just went back and read the original post and you are right, KF0KR did use 'Advance' repeatedly -- so upon further review it must not have just been a typo (which puzzles me as I had looked it up and KF0KR is indeed an Advanced class licensee).    I have never been a strict grammarian and tend to not even capitalize first words of sentences, so my dig at Jim for being a stickler was mostly in jest (hence the smiley).  He had put his correction in a post he had directed to me -- and as I happen to hold an Advanced class license and still don't get why no code Extras get access to the bottom 25KHz of 15, 20, 40 and 80 while I do not -- perhaps I reacted too harshly.
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W3HF
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 04:09:31 AM »

He had put his correction in a post he had directed to me...
I just went back and noticed that too. I don't think it was directed at you (regardless of license class) because the included reference clearly shows it as the original post. Maybe Jim just noticed it then. But I'll agree that it could be disconcerting to see it in a comment that's obviously otherwise directed to you.

I guess I'm just sensitive to folks who use nit-picking (instead of logical arguments) in debates. That's clearly not what you were doing, and I apologize for being too defensive.

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K9AIM
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2012, 05:55:38 PM »

So, I guess hell will freeze over before the FCC grandfathers me into having access to the Extra CW segments of the bands.  I was a pretty good test taker at age 15, but that was many moons ago.  I also am very limited in terms of my income.  So, I was thinking of going to the Dayton Hamfest for the first time this year, and it looks like Exams are FREE there?  If so, anyone have any thoughts on whether that is a good or bad place to take the Exam? 

Also, I have a good memory -- is memorizing the answers easier than learning the material the questions go into?  It seems kind of ludicrous to learn the answers only... When I took the General and Advanced in 1977, I actually learned the material and could probably have passed the Extra.  Unfortunately my code speed was around 15 wpm then (and only 13wpm in the stress of the FCC office).  Now my code speed is over 30wpm...

Also, if anyone has an Extra class license manual or Q & A they will part with cheap, let me know :-)

73 de K9AIM
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