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Author Topic: Bad manners and jamming has become the norm  (Read 5073 times)
K1WJ
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Posts: 455




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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 02:19:36 PM »

Ham radio is no different than anything else in life - if you have 100 people in a room - 5% are scum & can not be trusted.......K1WJ
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KE4DRN
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Posts: 3724




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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011, 08:04:46 PM »

No matter when the license was issued, a person can still act like a LID if they want to.

The license is a tool, like a hammer, lathe, pc, etc, is is what you do with it that matters.
Many people just want to make things difficult for everyone else, glad that these
trouble makers are in the minority.

73 james




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N1EQ
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 04:10:01 AM »

... if you have 100 people in a room - 5% are scum & can not be trusted ...
What if the "room" happens to be a prison cafeteria, or chamber of the U.S. Congress?
 Grin
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K8AXW
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 08:59:23 AM »


What if the "room" happens to be a prison cafeteria, or chamber of the U.S. Congress?
 Grin

[/quote]

Simple.  In those cases the ratio is reversed.
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N8CMQ
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Posts: 362




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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 11:15:16 PM »

It isn't "the norm", but it does happen.
Sometime we need to bear it, or QRT.
And it isn't new, it has been there a long time.
Sometimes it is very aggravating, but what can we do?
If you react and speak up, that is what the "troll" wants to hear.
That is what they are called online, "trolls"...
And just like being online, don't feed the trolls...
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W1IT
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Posts: 142




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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 05:31:51 AM »

 Angry

  Just a concluding remark. Much of this is sociological. More marginalized people, and that includes socially.
People lost in space, no job, middle aged, little education... no hope.. hand gun and amatuer radio.

Which do you use first the gun or the mich?
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STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 873




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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2011, 06:08:18 AM »

Manners come from a feeling of space.
The U.S. now has over 300 million people - competition is fierce for jobs, welfare, a standard of living and so tension is instilled in our everyday activities.
In some countries, people queue instinctively, forming an orderly line and allowing everyone to get onto a train or bus with a minimum of trouble. In other countries, particularly where competition for everything is fierce, its every man/woman for themselves, with pushing shoving and rude behaviour and frayed nerves.
When you see your neighbor as a competitor, you will not be inclined to share with or trust them, so a feeling of alienation pervades the environment.
Go to New York and then Sioux Falls and see the difference in attitudes.
It is not the people, it is the number of people crowded together.
The Japanese for example are very highly urbanised and like most other city dwellers, form personal "bubbles" to protect themselves from the seething mass of humanity around them. It is their lack of personal space which makes them insular, like all big city dwellers.

I must however disagree with comments about Americans being discourteous - I have found them to be some of the most courteous and charming people on earth, as I am sure that anyone who has been to the U.S. will confirm.
Those who base their assumptions on T.V. programs without having visited the U.S are doing themselves a dis-service.

73s
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K1CJS
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2011, 01:39:50 PM »

....Us "Rank & File" hams told the ARRL for many years not to "dumb down" the licenses for the very small percentage of potential hams that could not pass the old exams. Now that "Pandora's Box" has been open for awhile, I have been going through the same kind of junk talk/behavior as the Author of this question.....

That has been seen to be--and proven to be--baloney.  There are hams that have only been licensed or have upgraded since the code test has been dropped, and many of them are polite and proper operators although there are some that aren't.  Likewise there have been people who have passed the code test and the older tests that are obnoxious and quite rude--as if they think they own the bands.  And they were on the bands for years--way before the testing changes.
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WX4AR
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« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2011, 10:32:14 AM »

To say that the problem of bad manners is the “No Code Test” just isn’t fair.  I’m an Extra Class ham only because of the dumb down test.  I think of myself as fairly intelligent person but no matter how hard I tried I just couldn’t get the code.   Besides if you take the time to look up the calls of the people who make the 75/80 meter band their own “CB world” you would find that most have been licensed long before “No Code went into effect.
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ZENKI
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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2011, 09:33:35 PM »

ts the new operators who are to blame.

The bad habits I see so often.

It normally begins with "breaker""

"Sorry to disturb your QSO, I just want a signal report""

""Sorry i dont have your callsigns, can I have them""

"" Sorry can you give me the callsigns again I did not write them down"""

So this type of jerk operator will disturb a perfectly good QSO displaying all the rudeness and incompetence in the world.

These are the most inconsiderate operators who I have no time for. The rule was always that you wait till the qso
is finished before you put your callsign in. If there is a pileup so be it, and you stand in the queue. These rude operators
are just queue jumpers.


Then there is the new hams and they all excited,, they think its just like CB radio. They hear some DX station
who is talking and they just keep calling. The station is in a QSO but they want to interrupt the QSO just for a report.
You never hear these operators call CQ on the bands, they just search and interrupt peoples QSO's These operators are offensive in my book.

You only supposed call stations who are calling CQ, this new way of operating and interrupting every QSO on the band
is just bad manners. I wish these operators would get a copy of the ARRL operating manual.


The next bunch of ham hooligans are the ones who sit on the side of a QSO, and just interject throwing in comments without
joining the QSO, or giving a callsign. This is just so rude and low life. You dont have the right to interject into
anyone Else's QSO especially without introducing yourself and giving callsign. Its just bad manners.

Then you get the guy with indoor attic G5RV, who just calls in desperate manner. He will call even over the top of an
existing station in a purely untimed  manner hoping someone will  hear them. He thinks he is going to get a QSO by deliberately causing interference with his callsign They will typically call over both parties. These operators are really stupid and simply have no idea.

Lets get it clear you dont have the right to jump and interject into anyones QSO just because you want to make a comment or want a
signal report.

What gets me these days is that nobody wants to work by calling CQ for a signal report. Thats how it was in the past. If you want
a contact you would call CQ. Hams seem to want to sit on the internet and let someone mine the station for them and then they want to pounce and interrupt. I just ignore these operators now because its really becoming a bad disease on the hams bands.

In many ways HF operations seems to be turning into a 2 meter style of operation rather than a pursuit of the individual ham calling CQ.

If you want a DX or other  contact you call CQ not interrupt others for your lazy convenience.

This CB style of operation  has never been part of ham radio, there was always a QSO etiquette. Unfortunately these new hams  just dont want to learn the proper  operating procedure. They determined that they were expert operators on CB radio and they want to show hams how its done. This is just a uncaring  attitude.

Then we have the LIDS with microphone gain knobs all set to the right, and the splattter from the dumb idiots who use CB solid state amps. Yep, we have let the standards drop by letting stupid people take control of the ham bands!



Am I wrong in this but when I am having a good one on one conversation on hf, I don't appreciate people breaking in. I don't recall this happening in the past. Stations would wait for the qso to end before calling in. Now I have stations breaking in when they can only copy one half of the QSO. Is a fall over from repeater operation where interrupting and hijacking the conversation seems to be the norm.

Mark N1UK
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ZENKI
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Posts: 938




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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2011, 09:56:39 PM »

Regardless, before when you used to tune the ham bands you could hear so many nice  QSO's Now when you tune the ham bands you seem to get the impression that substance abuse is rife in the ham community! 

The only QSO's that you seem to hear are by those who  seem to be the ""haters"" in life. They hate everything about everyone and everything. Most of them sound like they just checked out of a mental hospital after having a  few rounds of shock therapy.

What I dont get is why these individuals who have bad jamming manners on the CB band go through all the trouble  of getting  a  ham license just to be a nuisance. We have seen this happen all over the world where entry level licenses have been  introduced. It started in the UK with the 10 watt licenses, ask any UK operator about the jamming and illegal power abuse by  these license holders. IN VK land downunder, the same thing has happened. Easy to get license holders jamming, using illegal power, jamming public and private  communications  and just  CB like  bad behavior. Hams did not ask for this it was forced upon the ham community from above! This is the trend all round the world. Sure there are good operators but they seem to be out numbered by the CB idiots.

If they wanted to attract more people to the ham bands why did they not  simply say anyone with an Electronics or communications degree could apply for a license  if they sat  an exam for ham radio rules and regulations. This would have been a more reliable way of attracting quality people interested in advancing the science. All we have now it seems is a glorified CB service  with so many poor operators from that band. You know its this way because most of these operators you can hear operating illegally  on the illegal CB channels using ham equipment and will even give their ham callsigns on these illegal channels! How do you get respect by breaking the law?

The cesspit is starring us all in the face!


quote author=K1CJS link=topic=75509.msg518788#msg518788 date=1307392790]
....Us "Rank & File" hams told the ARRL for many years not to "dumb down" the licenses for the very small percentage of potential hams that could not pass the old exams. Now that "Pandora's Box" has been open for awhile, I have been going through the same kind of junk talk/behavior as the Author of this question.....

That has been seen to be--and proven to be--baloney.  There are hams that have only been licensed or have upgraded since the code test has been dropped, and many of them are polite and proper operators although there are some that aren't.  Likewise there have been people who have passed the code test and the older tests that are obnoxious and quite rude--as if they think they own the bands.  And they were on the bands for years--way before the testing changes.
[/quote]
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N0ZNA
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Posts: 115




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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2011, 05:24:33 PM »

I have been reading all of this and been shocked.I am a gen class lic.I was a code novice for a while the took tech test.Was a tech plus for 17 yrs.Ran 2 mtr simplex,and 6 allmodes,and 10 all modes.Only ran into one lid.I wass shocked on Thursday,heard on 28.345lsb someone running am whit a echo and roger beep.There was two of them and they spoke english.It isnt everyday you hear smokey hunters that high on 10 mtrs.I just dont like getting on repeaters,and the lid i ran into was on 50.125usb back five years ago.And he was a oldtimer...73s de n0zna/John
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2E0OZI
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Posts: 270




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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2011, 04:29:32 AM »

Well I have to disagree Zenki about the UK Foundation Liscence holders and poor behaviour on the bands. I have heard nothing of the sort, either when I was an M6 or the last few months of being a 2E0. In fact I am wracking my brains to try and remember any case of bad behaviour by ANY UK station since I first started listening in November 2010.  Roll Eyes Yes I have heard bad behaviour on the bands, but its neither the norm or particularly annoying to me personally. I just move somewhere else. Of course if you are speaking about VHF and upwards...well I have never been there so I would no know.  Wink BTW, I have NEVER interruped anyone elses QSO in any way, and I would consider such behaviour extremely rude. If there is a QSO going on with a station I would like to make contact with, I will wait until any callers are invited - if this does not happen fair enough there is always another day.
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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
George Orwell
N2EY
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Posts: 3880




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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 07:31:59 AM »

So very sad, but true!  Us "Rank & File" hams told the ARRL for many years not to "dumb down" the licenses for the very small percentage of potential hams that could not pass the old exams.

It isn't the ARRL that makes the rules. It's the FCC. Since the early 1980s, the FCC has been simplifying and streamlining Part 97.

Telling ARRL is good - but how many hams told FCC? Particularly when there were formal proposals being considered? FCC has an on-line comment system that makes it simple and free to submit comments. That system has been around since the 1990s. Yet even when major changes are proposed, FCC gets few comments. (Maybe this isn't so bad, because some of the comments are quite embarrassing).

The problem is funding. From what I read and hear, a lot of hams don't know the history of FCC funding.

The FCC used to have somewhat-adequate funding. But the Reagan Administration, as part of its promise to "get the government off your back", cut FCC funding. Succeeding administrations have seen FCC as a legacy agency and have continued the pattern. When folks say they want "small government", they don't realize some of the things that result. The FCC changes over the past 30 years are one example.

All sorts of new communications technologies have arisen that need regulations, so FCC focuses on them. Note that FCC doesn't automatically get more money when somebody comes up with a new technology that needs rules & regs. The content of broadcasting is another focus for FCC. Hams, as a "legacy service", just don't get much.

Funding cuts are a big reason why FCC closed their exam offices and created the VEC/QPC system. Most of the exam work - both creating the Q&A pools and administering the tests - used to be done by FCC staffers. It's now done by unpaid volunteers. Big savings, and the exams are much easier for people to access. Note that NONE of the VE fee you pay at a VE session goes to FCC; it all goes to pay the cost of running the session (postage, duplicating/printing, space rental, transportation, etc.)

Funding cuts are why FCC went from 5 to 10 year license terms. Half as much renewal paperwork to deal with - and when you have 700,000 US hams, that's a savings of about 70,000 renewals a year. (With 250 working days per year, that's 280 per day!) Even with computers, handling 70,000 renewals a year requires a considerable amount of resources.

Funding cuts are a big reason FCC simplified the license structure from 6 to 3 license classes. Less upgrade paperwork, fewer question pools to maintain, no more CSCEs, simpler rules. Under the old system, a ham going from Novice or Tech to Extra could have as many as 4 upgrade interactions with FCC (Novice/Tech to Tech Plus, Tech Plus to General, General to Advanced, Advanced to Extra). Under the current rules, that's reduced to 2 upgrade interactions with FCC (Tech to General, General to Extra).

Look at all the Part 97 proposals that would have resulted in more cost/complexity for FCC and you'll see most of them were never enacted. Cost was a big reason in many cases.

For years in the 1980s and into the 1990s there was very little enforcement of Part 97 rules done by FCC. After much prodding, pleading and downright begging by ARRL we got Riley Hollingsworth assigned, and now Laura Smith. They do what they can but their resources are limited.


73 de Jim, N2EY
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K1CJS
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 11:48:24 AM »

(I)ts the new operators who are to blame.

The bad habits I see so often.

It normally begins with "breaker""

"Sorry to disturb your QSO, I just want a signal report""

""Sorry i dont have your callsigns, can I have them""

"" Sorry can you give me the callsigns again I did not write them down"""

So this type of jerk operator will disturb a perfectly good QSO displaying all the rudeness and incompetence in the world....

Zenki, you're looking at one side of the coin, but ignoring the other.  How about the long time hams that start a QSO on a frequency that is already in use, then when asked to allow the people to finish their QSO tell them rudely that "we've used this frequency for years, and we're not going to change now."  How about the nets that start their callups without even seeing if the frequency they're using is in use at the time or not?

And finally, how about the cesspool known at 75 meters, where almost ALL of the operators are long timers and who think they 'own' their places there?

No matter which way you look at it, there are bad operators that are new and who make mistakes because nobody bothers to try to help them learn the right way.  There are those who, as you say, just don't care and bring their long time habits to the bands.  And there are those who just don't care and will do things the way that seems right to them.  That is the side of the coin you're referring to.

Then there is the other side--the bad operators who just don't care that times are changing and the new guys ought to be given a chance.  Those who think they've been hams for so long that they can just do as they please.  And finally, those who believe their long time use of a certain frequency or band area entitles them to exclusive use of that area no matter who else may be there when they come onto the radio.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 11:50:38 AM by K1CJS » Logged
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