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Author Topic: Can we stop bashing NO-CODE hams!  (Read 5329 times)
2E0OZI
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Posts: 269




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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 01:15:18 PM »

I certainly agree with a gradation of learning - sitting all the exams in one day seems a bit mad to me. Its like expecting someone who has passed a theoretical test on motorcycling to be handed a licence to ride... instead of a practical examination of thier riding ability.
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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
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AE5JU
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2011, 08:22:09 PM »

I certainly agree with a gradation of learning - sitting all the exams in one day seems a bit mad to me. Its like expecting someone who has passed a theoretical test on motorcycling to be handed a licence to ride... instead of a practical examination of thier riding ability.


I did that, took all three tests in one sitting.  Man, my head hurt.  Even my hair hurt.   Shocked   And I'll freely admit I barely squeeked by on the Extra, but I did pass.

But I had been SWL'ing for 2 years before being licensed.  And I had been involved in electronics (mostly audio gear) for many, many years before.  My only RF experience had been hot rodding FM tuners, filter mods. 

I don't mind the "no-code" stuff, and I get very little of that from others.  What gets me is after, what 50+ years? hams are STILL griping about "incentive licensing".  It's been since the '60's.  Get over it!!!    Cheesy

And I swear on a stack of bibles, I haven't said "Breaker, breaker!" even once on the air!

73,

Paul - AE5JU
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AH6OY
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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 10:07:35 AM »

Quote
Can we stop bashing NO-CODE hams!

Only reading your subject my answer is no Smiley
Anyway, seems american youth is nothing but bashers these days. I don't bash and could care less. Well at least until something ticks me off Smiley
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KJ4I
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Posts: 111




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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 11:54:09 AM »

I don't have an issue with no-code hams. In fact, after being a General for the past 12 or 13 years I am finally going to attempt my Extra class pretty soon. Yes, I wanted to take it years ago but just too many irons in the fire and I had to stop at General for a while. Am I going to get bashed after I get my no code Extra? After all, I did take the 13wpm code back when I did General Class. The fact is that things change, sometimes they might not change the way we think they should but if they didn't change at all where would we be? Where would we go? Who knows. Back when all the hype first started about dropping the code I think I was a little disturbed with the idea but today it don't bother me one bit. I'll talk to the new Ham just as I talk to the older Ham and hopefully help the newbies with some things that I have learned over the years.

All of that said their is one thing that bothers me about some, and I said some, not all new Hams. When I hear a fairly new ham on the air asking where (what frequencies/bands) they are allowed to talk on and not allowed to talk on that bothers me. This is something that all newbies should know regardless of how new they are. They should have had to know this to pass their exam, that is the basics. When I hear someone on the air asking questions like that it always raises a brow of suspicion but that's just me. Those are the kinds of issues that make me wonder. Not whether or not they had to learn any code.
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K2CMH
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« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 12:55:20 PM »

The logic (if there is any) of bashing no-code licensees is that it makes it out to be something they did or had control over.  The people licensed since the code requirement was dropped had absolutely no control over that, so how is it in the slightest bit their fault?  Why should they be 'held accountable' for something they had no control over?  What exactly is it that the bashers are hoping to 'shame' the no-code licensees into doing by bashing them?  I will certainly concede that they had to work a lot harder by being required to learn the code, there is no doubt about that and as a result they have a very unique skill to be proud of.  However, putting others down for simply following the rules to be licensed does not make much sense.  I don't agree that having the code requirement made those hams any better or more technologically proficient than a no-code.  I think the technological proficiency was a function of the era.  Back then you had to be much more electrically proficient because most people had to build their own gear as opposed to these days.  But I still don't see how that relates to learning the code.

73,
Carlton
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AB4D
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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 01:41:11 PM »

I don't really hear older hams bashing/ignoring younger no-code hams, at least not for being a no coder.  What I do hear is older hams not wanting to talk to younger hams in general.  I believe that it has more to do with a combination of the age gap and poor operating practices, than their status (code vs. nocode).  Face it, some new hams are just a PIA.  Listen to 40 or 75 meters, you should hear some of these new hams.  They run up and down the band asking for signal reports, interrupting QSO's, or even worse, just keying up unannounced right in the middle of a net asking for a signal report.  On VHF and UHF, these are the same people you keep hearing kerchunking your local repeaters all day and night.

The best advice anyone can give to a new ham is to listen, listen, and then listen some more before even touching the microphone.  I think new hams should not be given a microphone until three months after they purchase the radio.  Maybe in that time they can listen and learn some basic operating practices.

I've also heard teens on the air, Oh boy!  Frankly, I don't want to talk to them as much as they probably do not want to talk to me. What are we going to talk about?  The latest video games? Hannah Montana?  How much fun we had at Boy Scout Camp?  All these are subjects that I have no interest or knowledge?  If they want an elmer, pick up a book and learn from scratch like I and many others have.

This nocode vs. code debate is beating a dead horse that has been cooked, processed, and turning into kitty food.

Can we all turn the page on this dreaded subject? 

73
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K1CJS
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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2011, 05:40:08 PM »

Sorry, but on 75 meters, most of the troublemakers have been on the band for years--many more years than just since the no code license came into being.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't those no code hams that just have to do things their way--or that refuse to 'unlearn' their bad habits, I'm just saying that there are just as many long time hams that are so set in their ways--right or wrong--that they won't give newcomers who want to learn the right way to do things an even break.
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NO2A
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2011, 03:28:13 PM »

I have nothing against the no-coders but here`s my advice: The next time you`re on the air even if you can`t copy code do this-tune across the cw bands listening for the weakest sounding cw note you can hear. Now compare that to the weakest sounding ssb signal you can hear. Notice how much easier it is to hear the weak cw station? Even if it`s covered in noise or some qrm? This is why cw is so popular among many hams. That signal to noise ratio is second to none. It makes learning the code well worth it....... Smiley
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G3RZP
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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2011, 01:42:15 AM »

Interestingly, there's a number of new young hams over here who haven't had to learn code, but have done so, and got very good at it. Mainly, I think, because they like contesting, but still, don't knock it...
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W6SBE
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2011, 07:52:19 PM »

  I had to hand draw circuit schematics for my first ham test.  I have never bashed a no-code ham, ever, and I'm 99 percent CW.  I used to be called an Elmer.  What is frustrating is an Extra class ham who can't figure out the correct length of a dipole, not the fact that he didn't have to learn CW.  Dan W6SBE 
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N2EY
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« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2011, 04:03:35 AM »

I'm tired of hearing new licensees being bashed and mocked by older hams. All the time I hear in forums and comments "It must be because of those NO-CODE hams", or "Well, thanks to all those NO-CODE hams..."

How many more-experienced hams actually say things like that? I think if you look carefully, you'll see it's a very small percentage.

It annoys me how some (not all, but some) of older hams shun or bash no-code hams today. They want to see no-code hams GONE! How does it even relate? It's a valuable skill, but how does it judge intelligence?

It's not about the code at all.

It's about the perception that US amateur licenses have been made much easier to get over the past few decades. Not just in the reduction and elimination of code testing but in the written testing too. The result has been some (not all, but some) newer hams who don't know some very basic things about radio.

Imagine if you decided you wanted to run a marathon, and you trained months for it, running longer and longer distances until you were able to complete the 26.22 mile distance and could be called a "marathoner".

Then suppose it was decided that the term "marathon" would apply to any race longer than 2.622 miles. There would be a lot more people doing "marathons", and being called "marathoners" - but would it be the same thing as before?

Of course some folks would continue to run 26.22 mile marathons.

What I don't understand, is why don't the older, experienced hams TEACH the newer hams about their mistakes? Instead of chasing them off the air!

A lot of us DO try to teach newer hams. In fact, most hams I know try to do that. The behavior you describe is limited to a few IMHO.

Everyone here was a new ham at some point in their lives. Remember that.

Consider that it works both ways.

If you look around, you'll see that some (not all, but some) newer hams bash the more-experienced hams, the code-knowing hams, the hams who have some experience.

You'll see that some (not all, but some) newer hams ask questions that display a complete ignorance of how basic radio works, and want an exception to the laws of physics.

You'll see that some (not all, but some) newer hams don't bother to do research; they just pop up in a forum with a question and expect a custom-made answer that explains it all to them without any effort on their part. It's like a student showing up in class not having done the homework or the required reading, expecting the teacher to explain it all.

You'll see that some (not all, but some) newer hams don't respect the values that have preserved and protected amateur radio, and want to go off in destructive directions.

Consider the question "can we all stop bashing each other?"

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N3OX
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« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2011, 07:01:45 AM »

Interestingly, there's a number of new young hams over here who haven't had to learn code, but have done so, and got very good at it. Mainly, I think, because they like contesting, but still, don't knock it...

I think it's also worth remembering that some people could easily pass various U.S. code tests without having a worthwhile knowledge of CW, while others had a very very hard time with even 5WPM, for reasons outside of their control.

I literally spent a few days memorizing Morse and passed the 5WPM code test to receive my Technician Plus license as my first one.  Other hams I know had to spend a year training just to pass 5WPM.  They weren't dumb or lazy or anything.  They just had a bad time trying to translate beeping into letters.

When I passed the 13WPM test to get my General and then upgraded to Advanced, my "solid copy" level was perhaps 7WPM and I was still not inclined to use the code on the air.  I made a shaky QSO here and there but mostly ignored the mode entirely.  I just did SSB and RTTY, and didn't even really think about the Extra until I started getting interested in some of the DXPeditions that were easier to hear on CW. 

I didn't really start USING CW until a couple years after I passed the 13WPM code test, and until I started sniping at DX, I was at a proficiency level only slightly faster than I could go after a few days of memorization.  When I started DXing on CW I just knew how my callsign sounded at high speed and how to send it, 5NN, and TU.

After a good amount of CW DXing, I was finally able to pass the 20WPM test, but probably not, at that point, 1 minute solid copy.  I don't make a lot of contacts, so I'm still not all that great even though I'm a lot better than I was and CW is my favorite mode.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between my experience and the experience of someone starting from NOTHING who's passed NO code tests.  Until I actually started using CW on the air, attracted there by juicy DX I couldn't hear on SSB, my Morse skills were basically hovering around my baseline natural talent level at looking up the characters in my mind quickly.

If I'd never passed a code test, maybe I would have just sat down a few years after I was licensed, memorized the code because I wanted to work some DX, and started working up to the point where I could understand what was going on.  I can't think completely objectively about that, but I kind of doubt that lack of Morse testing would have substantially affected my eventual use of Morse on the air.   There's still plenty of activity and Morse is still an attractive part of the ham tradition
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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
KL2TC
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Posts: 37




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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2011, 01:21:36 AM »


The old method of a 2 year operational experience window before eligible for the Extra ticket was a good idea in my book.

Gene W5DQ

I agree with this, although I don't know how one would quantify experience from passage of time.  I can't believe that an Extra would ask the question, "how do I hook up a J-38 to my transceiver?"  But I've seen it.

I am sure that there are many who are passionate with regard to the hobby, I know that I am.  But of those who aren't, how long is their life expectancy as an operator?  I would think, not long.

73

Al
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G3RZP
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2011, 02:52:04 AM »

You have only to look at some of the questions here from people with Extra class calls to wonder how on earth they got them. It must have been by memorising the 'Vote for Joe' answers, not because they have any understanding of the principles involved.

The argument is often advanced that "you don't need to be an auto mechanic to drive a car, so why should you need to know about radio to use a transceiver?" However, if you look at the definition in international law of a radio amateur, it's fairly clear that just operating is hardly within the definition.

Radio Regulation 1.56. amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunications and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

Operating with an interest  in propagation certainly comes within that, but some of the activities seem to stretch matters a bit - one example is the boater who wants cheap communication and so gets an amateur licence with no intention of having any interest at all. Some say that not being electronic engineers, they cannot know anything, but I know a number of people of occupations including  chemists, butchers, lawyers and accountants who at least have a rudimentary knowledge of what goes on in the box!

To my mind, the 'Vote for Joe' push for numbers has led to problems: doing code didn't make so much difference but now licences are practically given away with cornflake packet tops, I think we may have gone too far.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2011, 04:19:17 AM »

The worst mistake the FCC was forced to make was the release of the question pools--word for word.  What should have been done was to release the general information--but not the exact questions and answers.  Thank the mixed up and ludicrous laws and the 'freedom of information' act for that one. 

These US laws are the prime reason for the lack of common sense these days.  Too many people want everything spelled out in black and white.  They're not willing to use their mind and their God given sense of right and wrong.  They just want instant satisfaction.
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