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Author Topic: Respecting Other Hams  (Read 5827 times)
K9IUQ
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Posts: 1957




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« on: August 13, 2011, 06:39:15 PM »

I originally posted this in the CW Forum but I think it needs wider discussion. There seems to be much rancor and hatred here lately on eham. I confess even doing it myself.

I estimate that over 99% of hams are appliance operators.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being an "appliance operator". There are many different facets of ham radio.  Building homebrew equipment is only one small facet.

I get tired of hams ridiculing other hams because they do not share their interest in hamradio. Some hams like digital modes, some CW, others hate both. There is satellite operation, ragchewing and just talking to friends on 2 meters. Building, experimenting and modeling antennas is another interesting part of hamming. SDR's are another. Some like to experiment with propagation and use WSPR. Many hams obsess over fighting hordes of hams in a DX pileup, just to get a 2 second 599 TU.   Just talking to each other here on eham is another part of the hobby.

Appliance Operators and no code Hams seem to get more than their fair share of crap from other hams. It is ridiculous.

We all are hams, all with differing interests, it is time to respect one another regardless of what aspect of hamradio interests us....

Stan K9IUQ


 Another we need to do here on eham is to respect the right of another ham to have an opinion different than yours. There is no need to constantly argue about differing opinions. Certainly we do not need to call each other names or attempt to ridicule a poster.

Also IMO Political views have NO place here on eham. This is a Ham Forum. If you feel a need to discuss Politics, go to a website where these discussions are welcome. I do not need to hear your views that you are Democrat, Republican, or whatever.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 07:00:53 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
N2RRA
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 08:48:02 PM »

I couldn't agree with you more Stan.
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NE5C
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 03:20:14 AM »

Amen...Thank you...I agee also, especially about POLITICS
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K9YLI
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 07:22:21 AM »

  My problem with  'appliance operators'  , is    , how do they know they  won't like to "mess with  electronics"   un less they  learn enough to  really know.

They also  come to the boards and ask  questions they should know the answer to and expect the  'elmers'  to help them out.
  Do any of them wonder what will happen when  there are no  'elmers' left??
just appliance operators.

  I think i will just   desrespect  all other hams equally..
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AC4RD
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2011, 07:56:18 AM »

It's been a rule for years, not to discuss religion or politics on the radio, and it applies to online forums as well.   No matter how good peoples' intentions are, people WILL wind up being angry and upset about it.  I've seen political talk ruin several once-good mailing lists.  OP is RIGHT--let's talk about ham stuff, NOT politics! 
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K7KBN
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2011, 09:00:53 AM »

  My problem with  'appliance operators'  , is    , how do they know they  won't like to "mess with  electronics"   un less they  learn enough to  really know.

They also  come to the boards and ask  questions they should know the answer to and expect the  'elmers'  to help them out.
  Do any of them wonder what will happen when  there are no  'elmers' left??
just appliance operators.

  I think i will just   desrespect  all other hams equally..

I agree, but I'll respect that answer.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
PA0BLAH
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 09:31:51 AM »

I see I am referenced at this topic, to my answer ought to be posted here, I suppose.

I disagree Stan K9IUQ,

Of course can everybody do what he likes as hobby unless he is interfering with the rights of others. No problem.
And no reason to have no respect. BUT ham radio is a special case. The right to use radio frequencies is established at the ITU due to the service of selfdevelopment. It is a scientific hobby that got the rights to do experiments on RF in order to grow as a person.  
For every grow process there must be a minimum starter condition. When you think you can grow crop in the desert by just waiting you are wrong. The starting conditions are required to make sure that the growing can happen. that are the technical license requirements.

When licensed ham radio is exclusive used the way citizens band is, there will be no reason anymore to legalise ham radio in the way it is, then some technical knowledge as starting point is no longer required , but in that case it will be prohibited to construct your own transmitting equipment. Just as with cars on the public roads. It is prohibited to build your own car and drive on the public roads with it.

Quote
I get tired of hams ridiculing other hams because they do not share their interest in hamradio.
I  hope you see the difference, and you are making yourself tired because I make myself tired about what has happened.
I do not ridiculing other people because of their interest and hobby, I only worry abt losing the rights hams deserved in the past.

Quote
We all are hams, all with differing interests, it is time to respect one another regardless of what aspect of hamradio interests us....

Stan K9IUQ
In general I agree, however, honestly, sometimes I do find it very difficult, and well when I see persons in public places, completely unknown to me that show a body volume that proofs that they have some very rare disease OR that the are so willingless and eat like pigs.
When I take a plane, it happens that they need more space than reserved by buying a ticket and they use part of mine.

So I see many hams (also recently on this forum) asking advice how to learn CW, and look at lcwo.net. there you will find that 99% start the course and stop after some lessons. They never finish because they have no willpower to perform their own plans, just as the guys and galls without a rare disease plan to stop eating 3 times the amount they need and can't stop.
"To keep up with the Jones " is an American proverb, isn't it? I always think at it when I see the learning CW planners start with buying an expensive  set of paddles.  

Bob
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 09:37:39 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
K9IUQ
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Posts: 1957




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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 10:10:20 AM »

  My problem with  'appliance operators'  , is    , how do they know they  won't like to "mess with  electronics"   un less they  learn enough to  really know.

They also  come to the boards and ask  questions they should know the answer to and expect the  'elmers'  to help them out.

  I think i will just   desrespect  all other hams equally..

What is your definition of an "appliance operator"?

To me, it means a ham who buys an off the shelf radio and uses it. What is wrong with that? Since I work few if any ops using homebrew rigs I would guess that appliance ops are in the majority.

We are all at different stages of ham development. I have been a ham for 51 years, My knowledge of hamradio differs from a new ham. Is that a reason for me to disrespect a new ham because he asks questions that to me are stupid?

When I started hamradio in 1960 I was pretty stupid too, even tho I was 14 yrs old and thought I knew everything.  Cheesy I asked many stupid ham questions but back then there was no internet. There was not the rancor and "chip on the shoulder attitude" and hatred we see so much of here on eham.

In 1960 hams helped each other, it was a given. No one made fun of me because I was a new Novice. There was no disrespect. Hams went out of their way to help new hams. I was actually welcomed into ham radio by other hams.

Your reply illustrates why so many new hams today get disgusted with the hobby.

Stan K9IUQ
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 12:03:45 PM »

About questions of new hams,

My experience is that in the earlier days as a yougster, I saw hams as a source of knowing everything and I wanted to be one.

Afterwards: There were a few good technical educated hams but the majority just was busy to present and profile themself.

Now the same with forums. When a guy asks a question big change that he get 20 replies, and a lot of them are wrong of not educating or ugly readable. The problem for the guy asking the question is that he doen't know which reply is the reliable one.
Furthermore I see guys asking questions that solve their problem they had to do as schoolwork.

In life I learned pretty fast: When you have a question try to solve it yourself. Educate yourself, there are a lot of books around in every field you are interested in. They present the stuff in the right order, intermixed often with problems to solve, and you are all sat.

From forums you can't learn anything that is fundamental for the amateur. Look at transmission lines SWR, loss and matching, a field highly interested for most hams, the nonsense written that is unbelievable. Such as : with SWR 10,  75% of the power is reflected, hence you are one S punt less everywhere in every receiver. 

So new hams better keep away from forums and buy an ARRL handbook to find the answers on their questions.
73 Bob
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K2OWK
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 02:10:38 PM »

Hello Bob, Just a note. It is perfectly legal to drive a home made car on the public roads, as long as it meets federal and state standards. There are many home made cars on the public roads, some replicas of old or exotic cars, some completely hand made to someones fantasy of what a car should look like, all legal on the public roads. I do not know where you read that home made cars can not be driven on the public roads. This information is wrong.

73s

K2OWK
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STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2011, 04:45:02 PM »

When you attach a label to someone, you effectively place them in a metaphorical box.
The brain naturally does this to make it easier to function.
So - we place snakes and tigers in the box of dangerous critters - increasing our survival chances.
But when we enter the cultural theatre, we do exactly the same thing, resulting in in old folks being labelled technically inept, despite many of them inventing everything technical we use today.
Labelling someone as an appliance operator is effectively saying we label them as technically naive, and by extension we are are an expert. It is nothing more than bragging and attempting to puff out our chests. In many cases, "appliance operators" are not as expert as some. But the mathematical power law which seems to apply to so many things, also applies here.
Big asteroids are not as common as small ones, and really technical experts are much less frequent than less expert ones.
So lets drop the labelling, and consider that we are all on a journey, where one time we all had to sit in the newby's seat.

73s.
 
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K1CJS
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 05:15:22 PM »

It's been a rule for years, not to discuss religion or politics on the radio, and it applies to online forums as well.....   

I wonder why that you think it applies to all online forums.  Some forums--like E-ham--do frown on doing it, but others do not.  Some forums have specialized sections where political discussion is allowed, but it is tightly moderated.

The point is that that sort of discussion in online forums depends on the forum/list owner or moderator.  It isn't generally prohibited.
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W3LK
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2011, 05:36:49 PM »

It's been a rule for years, not to discuss religion or politics on the radio, 

Please show me the location of this "rule". I hear this often said but have never been able to find any such rule in print, certainly not in Part 97.
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A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
K9IUQ
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Posts: 1957




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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2011, 06:26:52 PM »


Labelling someone as an appliance operator is effectively saying we label them as technically naive, and by extension we are are an expert. It is nothing more than bragging and attempting to puff out our chests.

So lets drop the labelling, and consider that we are all on a journey, where one time we all had to sit in the newby's seat.

73s.
 

Dang, I wish I had said that. Well done!

Stan K9IUQ
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K5TR
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2011, 06:27:36 PM »

Please show me the location of this "rule". I hear this often said but have never been able to find any such rule in print, certainly not in Part 97.

It is not a rule - but a guideline.  One such place you can read it is here:

http://www.ham-operating-ethics.org/

http://www.ham-operating-ethics.org/files/1-Eth-operating-EN-IARU-R1-V3-CORR-2011.pdf
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George
K5TR
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