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Author Topic: After the CQ: AR or K ?  (Read 11810 times)
K0OD
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 08:21:54 AM »

Quote
t's really simple:

"K" is used after a CQ

That's been the case since the mid-50s that I know of personally. QST often said "K" was the only proper way to end a CQ.
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 08:47:17 AM »

I have never used AR. K is much easier and faster.

K means over - it is your turn.
I use K for everything except after 73's, then I use SK.

Stan K9IUQ
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K0OD
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 09:10:35 AM »

I use K for everything
Same here, and since 1957. That is acceptable practice. And when in doubt, use the briefest way to communicate.

--
Long ago the transition from receiving to transmitting took several steps. !) switching receiver to standby; 2) throwing a big antenna ceramic knife switch (with dangerous exposed contacts!) from the receive to the transmit position. 3) activating the transmitter.

Perhaps some hams back then thought they were being polite in preceding the K with the superfluous AR to give the other station a bit more warning of the turnover.

In 1957 that meant, "put down the cigarette and get ready to send."

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W5ESE
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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 10:03:03 AM »

And just to throw a monkey wrench into things, I like to call CQ in Field Day
this way:

CQ FD KE5LOT FD

no 'K' or 'AR' at all!  Wink
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K0OD
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2011, 11:02:40 AM »

You find phone "ESP CQs" that consist only of a ham saying his call once or twice. I hear that on channelized 60 meters sometimes. "ESP" because it makes you wonder whether he's testing, clearing his throat or CQing or what. 

FCC regs don't cover this, but it's safe to say that a CW CQ that ends with "AR PSE KN KKK" isn't good procedure.  (I've actually heard CQs that ended that way).

--
I think its fine now to reduce contest CQs to their barest. ie "CQ K0OD" wouldn't have worked at all with common 1950s technology including split frequency crystal controlled operation or transmitters that had to be zero-beat onto a CQ. 

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K0OD
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2011, 08:24:25 PM »

AR or K was settled in November 1956. There should be zero debate on it. 

Quote
When you sign for the last time on a CQ don’t be fancy.  Just send the procedure signal “K”.  This invites anyone who heard your CQ to answer.  Do not send <AR> either by itself or followed by K.

"The following classic article was originally published in QST magazine in November, 1956. It was considered valuable enough that for many years in the 50's and 60's the ARRL mailed a reprint to every new ham. The author, W6DTY, of Oxnard, California, became a silent key in 1986. "
http://users.ohiohills.com/gordon/novacnt.html
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K0OD
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2011, 10:12:37 PM »

The July 1950 QST has an article by W1DX, Basic Operating Procedure p. 20

It contains this example of a proper general call:  "CQ CQ CQ DE W1AAA W1AAA W1AAA K"

Note that 1950 article states, "The FCC requires the use of "DE" between calls in radio telegraph work and "THIS IS" or "FROM" in voice work."  That is no longer the law.

I was unable to find earlier examples of CQs from the ARRL QST database. Early articles on procedure mainly dealt with traffic handling.
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AB2T
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2011, 11:19:13 PM »

Note that 1950 article states, "The FCC requires the use of "DE" between calls in radio telegraph work and "THIS IS" or "FROM" in voice work."  That is no longer the law.

Was the law changed to accommodate FM repeater usage?  Calling CQ on a repeater is a big no no in most parts of North America.

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NO2A
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 06:54:44 PM »

The only problem I see with not sending AR K,is if your call ends in a "K". If someone is tuning by and hears your cq and you only id once it could be confusing. Sending AR K removes all doubt. Of course proper spacing helps too.
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K0OD
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2011, 09:31:20 PM »

"Sending AR K removes all doubt."  Yep, tends to mark you as an inexperienced CW op. I can't recall EVER hearing a 40+ wpm CQ that ended with ARK.

Listen to the CQWW CW coming up and see how many ARKs you hear. Actually most ops nowadays end contest CQs with nothing but a pause. The earliest CQ I found in QST around 1922 seemed to end after the call letters in that same manner.  (no K, no AR)

For the little good it will do, I'll repost this:
http://users.ohiohills.com/gordon/novacnt.html


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N2EY
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2011, 03:45:31 AM »

The only problem I see with not sending AR K,is if your call ends in a "K". If someone is tuning by and hears your cq and you only id once it could be confusing. Sending AR K removes all doubt. Of course proper spacing helps too.

It's still wrong to send "AR K". If the concern is a call ending in K, why not just send AR?

Proper spacing is the answer.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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NT0A
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2011, 12:44:23 PM »

I must admit that I have been guilty of ending the message part of a QSO with <AR> WZ6YZY de NT0A K or <AR> WZ6YZY de NT0A <KN> especially if I have been long winded or the ham on the other end seems to need more warning that it's his/her turn. I guess one might say the the <AR> stood for After Rambling, and honestly the <AR> K might have slipped into those QSOs, but I have tried to avoid it.

I must also say that I had never given the issue much thought until this thread popped up. I've always relied on the guidance contained in the ARRL Operating Manual or Handbook. The latest edition* of the Operating Manual that I have states the following about prosigns:

Voice Equivalents to Code Procedure
VoiceCodeMeaning
overARafter call to specific station
end of messageAR[self-expanatory]
wait, stand by   AS[self-expanatory]
rogerRall received correctly
goKany station transmit
go onlyKNaddressed station only
clearSKend of contact
closing stationCLgoing off the air

This table tells me that the proper CW CQ call is exactly what several have posted i.e., CQ CQ CQ de NT0A NT0A NT0A K. The table also indicates that the proper response to a CQ would be NT0A de WZ6YZY AR, and that the end of every subsequent transmission should be WZ6YZY de NT0A KN if the QSO is to be kept closed or WZ6YZY de NT0A K to invite others to join the rag chew.

I've never used CL to indicate that I am shutting down. I have always used QRT.

* FWIW it predates the 21st Century by more than a decade
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 05:01:06 PM by NT0A » Logged
NO2A
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Posts: 780




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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2011, 12:49:33 AM »

"Sending AR K removes all doubt."  Yep, tends to mark you as an inexperienced CW op. I can't recall EVER hearing a 40+ wpm CQ that ended with ARK.

Listen to the CQWW CW coming up and see how many ARKs you hear. Actually most ops nowadays end contest CQs with nothing but a pause. The earliest CQ I found in QST around 1922 seemed to end after the call letters in that same manner.  (no K, no AR)

For the little good it will do, I'll repost this:
http://users.ohiohills.com/gordon/novacnt.html



Thanks for the rudeness,as usual.
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K0OD
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Posts: 2557




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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2011, 08:49:14 AM »

Quote
I've never used CL to indicate that I am shutting down.

All of those are encountered plus the newfangled "BK" which is sometimes used at the end of CQs to indicate the caller's preference for break-in style operation. I don't think the use of AR is ever required. Just use K instead.

CL is very commonly used by rare DX to let a pileup know the station is shutting down. Something like "CL CL CL for dinner."  KN is useful when you want to make it clear you are calling a very specific station among several callers. ie "JT1CO de K0OD KN KN"

In modern contesting TU [Thank You] has largely replaced SK and translates roughly as "Thanks for the contact. I'm done with you and now listening for other callers."

You can add emphasis to these with spacing and repetition.  "K N   K N." ("the W6 caller shut up. I'm listening ONLY for the North Korean caller")

New CW ops can stick with K in their own transmissions. When in doubt keep it simple, which is the problem with embellishments like "AR K". 


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N2EY
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2011, 09:36:24 AM »

In modern contesting TU [Thank You] has largely replaced SK and translates roughly as "Thanks for the contact. I'm done with you and now listening for other callers."

Yep - in fact, I take it to mean "R, copied your exchange complete, thanks for the QSO, good luck, 73, we're done, now listening for other contest QSOs".

TU de Jim, N2EY
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