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Author Topic: Beware of upcoming Windows 8  (Read 19688 times)
W8JX
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« on: September 21, 2011, 05:01:02 PM »

Been doing some reading and it seems that Microsoft going to require a major BIOS change on all new PC's and Tablets certified for Windows 8 that will prevent the installation of another OS, even older version of Windows, on the PC. In effect locking out Linux too and tightening Microsoft's grip on PC market. Those holding out for Windows 8 for PC upgrades might reconsider. 
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All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
KE4DRN
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 06:50:21 PM »

hi

we can always flash the bios back to a previous level
to run other o/s.

73 james
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 07:01:47 PM »

Been doing some reading and it seems that Microsoft going to require a major BIOS change on all new PC's and Tablets certified for Windows 8 that will prevent the installation of another OS, even older version of Windows, on the PC. In effect locking out Linux too and tightening Microsoft's grip on PC market. Those holding out for Windows 8 for PC upgrades might reconsider. 

"Prevent installation of another OS" may be an overstatement. According to this description of Windows 8 Secure Boot,

  • - This could pose a problem for Linux users, though in practice most can just change UEFI settings to disable secure boot before installing the open-source OS. But users will have to depend on hardware vendors to make this option possible in the first place.
  • - For many (and hopefully most) Windows 8 machines, this means that users have a good chance of successfully entering the UEFI settings interface to turn off secure boot. But this will depend on the hardware vendor.
  • - As Microsoft notes in the Building Windows 8 blog, “We will continue to support the legacy BIOS interface.” However, machines using UEFI instead of BIOS “will have significantly richer capabilities” including faster boot times and greater security."
  • - Ultimately, the Windows 8 changes aren’t likely to wipe out Linux dual-boot scenarios, but they could restrict the types of hardware that will allow them. PC users who would boot two operating systems tend to be highly technical, though, so we expect they’ll find the necessary workarounds.
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W8JX
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 07:10:36 PM »

hi

we can always flash the bios back to a previous level
to run other o/s.

73 james

It is not going to be that simple. The nature and function of BIOS will see a major change and it will also actually check for digital signatures on boot up and with some devices too and cannot be flashed out. This is no bandaid mod.  Post above does not address that for a WIN 8 certification as it stands not, it cannot be easily bypassed as suggested above. They put a lot of thought into this. There was a time when PC makers had to pay MS to not put Window on a PC. This is a new angle.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 07:16:49 PM »

They put a lot of thought into this. There was a time when PC makers had to pay MS to not put Window on a PC. This is a new angle.

Microsoft played a lot of hardball before the Justice Department finally woke up. The practice of "tying" is a giant red flag in the anti-trust world; we'll see just how far they try to go...
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W8JX
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 07:27:03 PM »

They put a lot of thought into this. There was a time when PC makers had to pay MS to not put Window on a PC. This is a new angle.

Microsoft played a lot of hardball before the Justice Department finally woke up. The practice of "tying" is a giant red flag in the anti-trust world; we'll see just how far they try to go...

Well the timeline on last restriction ran out recently for MS and they are kinda free to bend the rules again.
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N0NB
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 05:52:29 AM »

This would not seem so onerous if Microsoft, like Apple, sold Windows as a tied part of their own hardware.  Instead the ostensibly independent OEMs have become tied at the hip (or some other body part) to MS and will jump when MS says, "Jump!"  What will likely happen, at least for the short term, is that MS will subsidize the OEMs so that hardware capable of loading only Win8 will be cheaper than bare hardware that can load any OS.  After a period of time the OEMs will declare that sales of bare hardware do not justify its continued offering and will drop bare hardware from the market.  This will be a convenient excuse for any anti-trust concerns.

Lather, rinse, repeat.
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73, de Nate
Bremen, KS

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KF7CG
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 08:44:55 AM »

Second verse of this will come a couple of years down the road when the same microcode that checks for valid Win8 signatures compares them against the current date and decides that the Win* license has expired and must be renewed. Repeat until Operating System by the month chanrge, the same for the "Cloud."

KF7CG
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W8JX
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2011, 11:22:11 AM »

Second verse of this will come a couple of years down the road when the same microcode that checks for valid Win8 signatures compares them against the current date and decides that the Win* license has expired and must be renewed. Repeat until Operating System by the month chanrge, the same for the "Cloud."

KF7CG

Microsoft actually wanted to do this about 10 years ago and sell yearly licenses for OS. Never made it out of starting gates back then.
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N0NB
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 12:42:09 PM »

With people becoming accustomed to paying for "cloud" services on an ongoing basis, the time may be right.
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73, de Nate
Bremen, KS

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G0GQK
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 01:15:41 PM »

Easy answer, just keep on using XP, Vista and Windows 7.
If you don't buy it Mr G wil be stuck up a gum tree. You don't have to keep spending money for the same thing with a different name and a few new gizmo's. In a few years time you won't have the money to waste.

G0GQK
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W8JX
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2011, 01:57:18 PM »

And something else I forgot to mention, Win 8 is primarily for a touch screen Tablet OS by design that will work on desktop with a mouse as a secondary platform. It seems MS is determined to bring bloat to tablets too.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2011, 05:29:56 PM »

And something else I forgot to mention, Win 8 is primarily for a touch screen Tablet OS by design that will work on desktop with a mouse as a secondary platform. It seems MS is determined to bring bloat to tablets too.

It's an overstatement to claim that Windows 8 is primarily for touch-enabled (Metro) applications. Windows 8 is largely a functional superset of Windows 7. As is stated in in the Windows 8 Developer Preview,

"The next version of Windows (codenamed Windows 8 ) is being designed to build on what is great about Windows 7, delivering richer security features, faster startup, and longer battery life that runs on a wider choice of devices and chipsets. Windows 8 extends these fundamental features with a new touch-optimized interface. Windows 8 also provides the platform to create a whole new generation of full-screen apps that are based on modern web standards and available through the new Windows Store."

As expected, it's Embrace and Extend.
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W8JX
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2011, 05:52:02 PM »

And something else I forgot to mention, Win 8 is primarily for a touch screen Tablet OS by design that will work on desktop with a mouse as a secondary platform. It seems MS is determined to bring bloat to tablets too.

It's an overstatement to claim that Windows 8 is primarily for touch-enabled (Metro) applications. Windows 8 is largely a functional superset of Windows 7. As is stated in in the Windows 8 Developer Preview,

"The next version of Windows (codenamed Windows 8 ) is being designed to build on what is great about Windows 7, delivering richer security features, faster startup, and longer battery life that runs on a wider choice of devices and chipsets. Windows 8 extends these fundamental features with a new touch-optimized interface. Windows 8 also provides the platform to create a whole new generation of full-screen apps that are based on modern web standards and available through the new Windows Store."

As expected, it's Embrace and Extend.

It not a over statement

The spin you quoted tries to suggest otherwise but insiders that have played with it state it IS NOT a Win7 remake (Win 7 is repackaged Vista) but rather a all new OS and indeed focuses on a Tablet and not desktop. MS recently gave out a few thousand tablets to developers that Win 8 beta was preloaded on for evaluation and feed back.  It will run on a desktop but MS wants in Tablet wars bad and rather than making a lean tablet only OS they are making next Windows for tablet as primary function and added PC support too.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2011, 09:46:17 AM »

The spin you quoted tries to suggest otherwise but insiders that have played with it state it IS NOT a Win7 remake (Win 7 is repackaged Vista) but rather a all new OS and indeed focuses on a Tablet and not desktop.

Windows 8 is not an all new OS, it's another MinWin instantiation, a descendant of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008. See Windows 8 Server Developer Preview, for example. Do you seriously think that Microsoft could have created an "all new OS", endowed it will all of its predecessors' functionality, and gotten it running only a few years after launching Window 7?
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