Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Deep Impact Dead - Yet Another Flexradio Promise Lost  (Read 17905 times)
KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2011, 06:16:30 PM »


It is because I tell the truth, something that is sadly lacking in the Flexradio Community.

Stan K9IUQ

The TRUTH is NOT something the Flex Radio community can handle.  Just look at the nonsense responses and attacks from the Flexies that the truth generates here.

Gene
Logged
KE5JPP
Member

Posts: 0




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 03:57:23 AM »


It is because I tell the truth, something that is sadly lacking in the Flexradio Community.

Stan K9IUQ

The TRUTH is NOT something the Flex Radio community can handle.  Just look at the nonsense responses and attacks from the Flexies that the truth generates here.

Gene
No, you and the ten year old's warped and twisted version of what you PERCEIVE as the truth is what generates responses from Flexers. There's a HUGE amount of difference in the real truth and what you and your buddy put out there after distorting it and spinning it to meet your agenda. But keep trying....I need the laughs! Cheesy
Michael, W4HIJ

You have proven by your nonsensical postings to eHam that you have an agenda as a Flex apologist.  No matter how bad it gets you remain one of the "faithful".   The proof of this is that when you have nothing legitimate to say in response to an issue, you resort to name calling.

Gene
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 569


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2011, 07:37:28 AM »

As a new Ham and also a Flex owner, as well as other radios, I don't see what all the hoopla is about.  While I am a new Ham operator, I have seen the emotions displayed here in other hobbies and brand loyalty and brand hate.

I suspect that the issue with Flex owners is that for many they feel like changing over to SDR is revolutionary.  Take a long time traditional radio operator and move them to something very new and different, two very distinct things will happen.  There will be people that will struggle and hate change and there will be those that take to the change like a duck in water.

It's pretty typical for the average human to get very excited when they get a new toy and feel it lives up to or surpasses the hype.  It's also very typical for those that feel it doesn't live up to the hype and feel they paid a lot of money to have a lot of problems to get very distraught about it.

Here is the funny thing about all this.  Your going to likely find Flex like technology creeping into the radios of the future.  Simply stated, put a flex radio technology base into a traditional radio with knobs and you likely have a super cool and highly capable rig that is software upgradable.

Let's say you are looking at high-end radios and you find one that is software upgradeable with filters and features where you don't have to pop open the cabinet or worry about buying a new radio in a few years to have the latest greatest features.  Wouldn't that way heavy into your decision making process if your favorite manufacture offered such a product?

I have many years as a high end computer builder and user.  The reason I missed all the radio fun for so many years after getting out of the service where I was in communications is that I got captivated by computers.

Keep a long story short, I was torn between a Flex and a FT-5000 when I went to get a high-end radio and for budget reasons settled on a flex.   My stater radio was an 897D and while very capable I also struggled with what I now learned was noise.  Reception was poor because I had such a high noise floor that it was hard for me to hear anything unless it was S8 or higher.

Like many newer Hams I was sure I needed a better radio and so I had some hobby money available to buy something nice and settled on the Flex even though my heart really wanted the FT-5000. 

Well, I could Recieve better but I still had a high noise floor.  Visually being able to see the spectrum and signals helped me dig out signals better.  What really became evident though was I had noise issues and the Flex helped me see the problem and so I really went to town zapping noise sources and got my noise floor down to about S5 on the worst bands and S1 on the best bands.  As you might imagine a whole new world opens up when signals pop out of your noise floor.

What I saw when reading messages though was lots of people blaming the flex for these problems.  Mind you that without doing anything to improve your noise floor I don't see the flex being a better radio than any other mid to highend radio when it comes to reception.  They all have similar specs.  I would not even say the Flex is the best rig out there.  It's somewhere in the top 15% in my limited and humble opinion.

Yes ther are some very unique challenges with the flex that are frustrating if you want to get rid of the RF issues in your shack that the flex makes highly apparent as with the Panadaptor it's puts them right in your face.  Also, it's more susceptible to computer Generated types of RF becuaseni, it's hooked to a computer to work!  My main issue I discovered was the wireless Internet adaptor which on transmit was injecting RF into my FireWire capable. 

So backing up a bit, all those great features, notch filters, other filters I was using at first to fight RF issues coming from my shack, well, I don't use any of them really very much unless someone out there being nasty is running in the middle of a conversation.  Seriously, no noise canceling, notches, just the filter width which stays pretty much set at 2.7 for SSB.

If I did the same with that FT-5000, I probably wouldn't be using most of the controls on it either.

Which leads me to one last point, I agree knobs are nice, so I added them to my Flex and it makes the rig a joy to use and all the difference in the user experience.  If flex made a version with knobs and the PSDR software, it would truly be awesome.  The knobs I added are programmable and I only added what I needed, which was about 10.  You can see a picture of the station on my QRZ profile. NI0Z.

Flex, not the greatest rig out there and certainly not the failure some people try to portray it as due to their dislike and often very limited or early adopter and poor user experiences.  It's ok to hate it and as much as people want to have the right to hate it, they need to also allow people rights to love it.  In general I reccomend the two groups avoid each other as that will make both sides happier.  Life's too short to simply not be enjoying hamming!

NI0Z
Logged

W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2011, 09:06:34 AM »

As a new Ham and also a Flex owner, as well as other radios, I don't see what all the hoopla is about.  While I am a new Ham operator, I have seen the emotions displayed here in other hobbies and brand loyalty and brand hate.
NI0Z

The "hoopla" is caused by a small handful of individuals who, for whatever reason, had a bad experience with their Flex Radios. They have unfortunately chosen this forum as their bully pulpit and they bully and harass and try to shout down anyone that points out the many positives of a Flex rig or has a differing opinion than theirs when it comes to Flex.
 They are grown men who act like children. Now of course, I'll be accused of name calling for the umpteenth time but hey "if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then it must be a DUCK!!
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 569


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 10:40:27 AM »


Your heart and you would have been much happier (but poorer) with the FT-5000. The Flex is NOT a better radio than any most other similarly priced radio. The main attraction of a Flexradio is the display. Hams are mesmerized by that Panafall/spectrum scope. The same thing happened when the Icom Pro II series of radios were introduced. Gotta have that display.

The Flexradios alas have many flaws a ham has to live with, just to get that wonderful display.

Serious Contesters shun the Flexradio, and go for the Elecraft K-3, however Flexradios are perfect for newbie hams like yourself who do not know any better. Hams that just want to ragchew to their buddies on SSB and proclaim that their Flexradio is the best while admiring that wonderful display.  Cheesy Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ


Well, you know, doing the research I did it seemed to be that all transceivers have flaws and none are perfect, the Flex, Elcraft, Yaesu ect.

I actually had a nice ratchet one day with a FT-5000 and came to the realization after that conversation and having played with one that I had in fact made the right decision for me.

What's right for me is obviously very wrong for you and such is the greatness of life that we can all choose what we want.  The shame of it is that our passion here with Ham radio is about bringing people together through our technology platform.

The same arguments existed in photography, there were those that bought cameras for their technical specs and there were those that bought them to take pictures.  I suspect that the same exists for Ham radio.  There are those that do not care about one radio or another, so long as it lets them connect on the airwaves in the mode they choose.

I am just telling it how I see it, it's a really nice radio and like all others does some things better than others.  The fact is that while the company may have some broken promises, they are still doing very well. 

BTW, when your looking for traffic on a band, those pretty real time displays are darn useful!  They are no less pretty than the displays and knobs on traditional radios that allures me as well.

By the way, just tell all the long time hams that couldn't master the depth of the flex radio that it's a beginners radio.  The main reason I have found that people say they don't like flex radios are as follows.

Can't get used to the lack of manual knob based controls
Can't get it installed and get rid of RF issues
Can't figure out the software

If you polled a person for the reasons they get rid of the radio they own there will be a list as well, perhaps different, but I know I have seen people say that some of the highend radios are too complicated as well.

If your sole purpose though in talking about a particular radio is to pick at it, then one has to really ask themselves what the motivation in it is.  That's like all things in life, when is it time to simply move on and get over whatever is bothering you.  You can hang on to it forever and forever make yourself and others miserable, or you can move on.  Unless your passion of course is to make yourself and others miserable.  In that case, carry on because I am perfectly content ignoring it.

73's
Flip on your radio and have fun!
NI0Z
Logged

W6UV
Member

Posts: 538




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2011, 11:11:27 AM »

As a new Ham and also a Flex owner, as well as other radios, I don't see what all the hoopla is about.  While I am a new Ham operator, I have seen the emotions displayed here in other hobbies and brand loyalty and brand hate.

I've owned a 5000A for a year now, so I'll give you my take on the hoopla here.

First, there's no denying that SDR is the wave of the future and that more and more amateur transceivers will go this route until eventually non-SDR rigs are as rare as tube-based rigs are today (on the new equipment market).

Flex's implementation of SDR is generally very nice, but that's not what raises people's ire on this board. The various issues with their implementation is source of all the heat.

Some basic features on Flex rigs have essentially been broken for years. Take CW as an example. This is an extremely simple mode that's been around since the dawn of radio, yet until very recently it's been effectively broken on Flex rigs. (There's even some who feel that the current version of PSDR still has subtle timing issues with CW sending). The response from Flex and the user base has ranged from "everything works fine and if you think otherwise, you don't know what you're talking about", to "yes, there's a problem--we'll fix it in the next release." It took Flex several years to address the issue to the point where their rigs support CW in a usable fashion.

There are other cases of issues that remained unfixed for a long time, such as the 160M spur issue. This was widely reported by a number of hams, including the then president of the ARRL, but was seemingly ignored by Flex. They thought they could address it with a software fix, but it eventually required a hardware fix.

Other basic functionality either hasn't been implemented yet, or has only appeared very recently, such as robust notch filtering.

It is the perception of some, including myself, that Flex put more attention and resources into pretty skins and other interface eye candy than they did into basic RF functionality. This may be a sign of the times in this flashy iPhone era, but I would much rather have a simple, basic interface with robust, bullet-proof RF performance and basic features that always work than the other way around.

Another reason you see a lot of negative posts here is because such criticism isn't tolerated on the Flex mailing list. People have been banned for persistently raising issues there.

Overall, I like my 5000A. It's great on the digital modes (no cables!) and okay on SSB. I gave up on it as a CW rig (never could get past the subtle timing issues) and got a K3 for that.
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 569


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2011, 12:23:41 PM »

I see that as fair and healthy criticism.  My newbie green research experience from what's have read is that the only way to go for CW is an Elcraft and anything other than those radios is a compromise.  I don't do CW so I cant really comment on the flex or any other radio thean to spew forth an opinion on what I read.

This same delima is not uncommon in photography as there is no one perfect camera and hence why I own multiple cameras to address the gaps.  I suppose if the current landscape doesn't change for CW that I would buy a K3 if I learn if i were to take up CW because I have read its a great tool for such.

I like my Flex for SSB, it took a bit of tweaking, however, given the antennas I have and limitations on them, I can bust a pileup with ease.  Yes, I have an amp in line as well that helps.  Plain ole rag chewing is nice, but yes, I did add some unnecessary front end audio equipment, probably mainly because I could.

If someone gave me an ICOM 7800 or a Yaesu FT-5000 pr 9000 I would certainly use them on occasion.  My understanding though is even those rigs have CW issues and also the real time displays are not really real time.  That was a comment from the FT-5000 user I spoke to that suprised me.  A big deal for me was having the Panadaptor and even more so now after using one.  It's easy to see interference, and steer clear of it.  It's also easy to see DX's.  I use DDUtil to have several programs running as well, logger, DX Spotters ect.  Those are of course things that can be used with other rigs as well.

I guess the thing that has always gotten me about hobbies and high-end equipment is that so few people research what they are buying.  Seriously, I'd someone buys a flex 5000 today for CW and it's all important, shame on them for not researching it better.  If you believe sales literature and promises, that's just shameful as well when most people can google and find the dirt on almost anything that is made out there.

Even early adopters have to consider the simple fact they are adopting early.  With the exception of true lemon products where you get a one off that strays form the average, you pretty much get what you deserve if you buy a product and it's the norm.

I think talking about weakness's and ways to work around them or asking for help is good. Also, we all have to remember that legitimate first hand user complaints, not the so and so said variety, are good to share as that helps build the record on a given product.

Tolling though, well, that gets rather useless in my opinion.

I am checking out of this conversation, said all I need to at this point.  That's an invite for anyone feeling like they need to, that you can take your shots now and I won't respond.

Take care, enjoy the airwaves!
NI0Z

Logged

N5RWJ
Member

Posts: 461




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2011, 01:49:55 PM »

Some may wonder, what is needed for Flex to solve it's problems ?
Logged
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2558




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2011, 02:14:21 PM »

Puzzling quote:
Quote
"My newbie green research experience from what's have read is that the only way to go for CW is an Elcraft and anything other than those radios is a compromise.  I don't do CW so I cant really comment on the flex or any other radio than to spew forth an opinion on what I read."

Well I do work CW and my shack hasn't been underwater for the last 3 PSDR revisions.

The 5000 (I don't own a 1500) generally works well on CW. I hear a minor "squelch tail" that's annoying on 6 meters CW and sometimes lower bands. My radio used to crash on six meters, but that was many software revisions ago. Lately I've been using it on ten where it performs flawlessly and its gorgeous panadaptor is utterly useful.  

What's ignored here is that the Flex 5000 does some things better than any radio on the market. The 5000 is really a piece of test equipment. Right out of the box, it can beat many entrants in a FMT.  It's a ton of fun to operate. Plus the new TNF is amazing!  

I don't understand why every shortcoming in the Flex company's history has to be continually rehashed. When Kenwood brings out a new model we don't hear a drumbeat of whining about soft tubes in the 1975-vintage TS-520 or about the computer interface problems of the 1992 TS-850.

Flex is better than it was three months ago, six months ago, a year ago. Vastly better than two years ago. There are minor enduring problems with the 5000, but darn few.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 07:27:13 PM by K0OD » Logged
W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2011, 01:31:08 PM »

Some may wonder, what is needed for Flex to solve it's problems ?
It's my understanding that adding an external keyer to a Flex radio solves the CW issue. The recent review of the 1500 in QST stated as much. I don't know why the same wouldn't be true for the 5000 and the 3000 as well.
 I'm not an avid CW op but as a change of pace from digital and SSB I do occasionally use my Flex 1500 with a straight key at speeds around 10-13 wpm. I have no issues with it at all using it in that fashion.
 It seems to me that most of the avid CW ops that I know are not satisfied with the internal keyers on ANY radio so I don't know why using an external keyer would be an issue for them.
 I'm sure I'll get attacked for saying this but since I don't use CW that often I could care less about the CW performance of a Flex or any other brand of radio for that matter.
 As far as any other "problems", they have been few and far between for me personally and the positives of owning a Flex SDR have far outweighed the negatives.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Logged
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2558




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2011, 07:30:16 PM »

Quote
adding an external keyer to a Flex radio solves the CW issue

My enduring squelch tail problem has nothing to do with the keyer, I use an external keyer but that's irrelevant. The minor but annoying noise occurs on return to receive, mostly on six and ten meters. It can be seen on the Flex scope. The op hears the noise but it isn't transmitted. That's about my only gripe with the 5000.

QST (this issue) wrote about a keying delay problem in the 1500 which my 5000/computer setup doesn't have. 
Logged
W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2011, 09:42:49 PM »

Quote
adding an external keyer to a Flex radio solves the CW issue

My enduring squelch tail problem has nothing to do with the keyer, I use an external keyer but that's irrelevant. The minor but annoying noise occurs on return to receive, mostly on six and ten meters. It can be seen on the Flex scope. The op hears the noise but it isn't transmitted. That's about my only gripe with the 5000.

QST (this issue) wrote about a keying delay problem in the 1500 which my 5000/computer setup doesn't have. 
Guess I should have said it solves the latency issues that some have. Anyway, that was just my understanding from reading it several places, I wouldn't know first hand because I've never had the inclination to master a set of paddles and a keyer, internal or otherwise. As I said, I just send a little straight key CW from time to time as a change of pace. CW is far from my favorite mode.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

Logged
W6UV
Member

Posts: 538




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2011, 10:55:10 PM »

In my case, the roughly 40 msec of keying lag was enough to throw off my timing to the point where I just could not send reliably at over 20 WPM.

My K3 has no discernible lag at all.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 09:26:50 PM by W6UV » Logged
K1ZJH
Member

Posts: 1069




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2011, 01:09:13 PM »

I'd guess trying to market a SDR radio to the masses that isn't considered to be experimental and isn't open archicture (sp?) is going to be buggy and not really suited to the non technically inclined masses. They always
seem to be a work in progress trying to keep up with the latest in technology.

Pete
Logged
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2558




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2011, 04:01:22 PM »

QST reviewed a 1500 with PSDR that was at least two versions old.

The article didn't mention Flex's highly regarded Tracking Notch Filter which no other radio has. The first beta of the TNF was released on August 24, 2011. The official version came out on Sept 15, 2011. The TNF <IS> the latest technology and it works quite reliably.

 
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!