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Author Topic: Terminology  (Read 6940 times)
W8JI
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2011, 03:01:13 AM »

.......and Paul Ruben took her to the movies.
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AC4RD
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2011, 04:07:33 AM »

.......and Paul Ruben took her to the movies.

Is he the one who invented the sandwich with sauerkraut and corned beef?

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N4NYY
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2011, 06:35:50 AM »

Quote
and Paul Ruben took her to the movies.

Or at the very least, thinking of her.
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KC9TNH
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« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2011, 06:58:57 AM »

.......and Paul Ruben took her to the movies.

Is he the one who invented the sandwich with sauerkraut and corned beef?


Nope, that was the painter who liked voluptuous ladies who, it's been said, were waitresses in his deli.
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73
Wes -KC9TNH
"Don't get treed by a chihuahua." - Pete
N3JBH
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2011, 08:00:37 AM »

Voluptuous ladies you got too love them. Every one loves a set of big tubes and a great tank circut  Grin
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AC4RD
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2011, 09:07:31 AM »

.......and Paul Ruben took her to the movies.

Is he the one who invented the sandwich with sauerkraut and corned beef?


Nope, that was the painter who liked voluptuous ladies who, it's been said, were waitresses in his deli.


I didn't know that!  That must be where the expression comes from, the one you hear when you're going to the deli for lunch:  "Going Dutch."
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N5DUX
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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2011, 09:19:42 AM »

Wow. This is still alive?!

He had a rant about incorrect terminology and use of words, and wanted to "teach" us the proper use. Is came across as arrogant.

On the contrary. The intent of the thread was for everyone to chime in clarify commonly misused terminology. I was just pointing out a few that I've noticed and thought others would add to it. That is why I ended my original post with a question for others to chime in.

Of course, it met so much resistance, I figured I'd kill it. Others, it seems, can't let it go.

(I'll re-edit the original post to clarify once again since this seems to be sticking around.)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 09:30:39 AM by N5DUX » Logged
AC5UP
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2011, 11:02:10 AM »

...and then I'm wondering if there's some confusion between Paul Reuben and the always memorable Paul Reubens.

You know, the TV personality who inadvertently answered the question about why you never hear the audience applaud during a porn movie...........?
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KC9KEP
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« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2011, 01:04:53 PM »

Here's another one:  "Plug" and "Jack".  The "Plug" is the male part that goes into the "Jack".  I've seen those two get mixed up all the time.

Or 73's which is like saying; "Best Regards's"  Or what is your QTH which is like saying; "What is your 'what is your location'".

And, here's another thing that bothers me!  Why do people say "ass trick" when they mean "asterisk".  The former sounds like something that
I don't want to elaborate on.

Or, people that say "irregardless" when they mean "regardless".  "Irregardless" isn't even a word!

Or, "pacific" for "specific" .. Or, "physical week" for "fiscal week".  Or, foo-pah for faux pas.  Or "I seen it" instead of "I have seen it".
Or, "I don't got no" for "I haven't any".  Or, vo-koo for beaucoup. 

Ayiee .. I'm melting down .. melting .. melting ..

73!
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N2EY
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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2011, 03:22:55 PM »

Common misnomers:
- rotor/rotator - one is a part, the other is the whole mechanism

Not really. As posted elsewhere, the two terms have been interchangeable for over 50 years. Alliance Tenna-Rotor, anyone?

- diplexer/duplexer - one splits/joins signals, the other keeps them separate

Nope. Looks like you've run afoul of a version of Muphry's Law (that's not a typo).

A diplexer is a splitter/combiner that is frequency selective so that one band of frequencies goes in/out of one port, and another band goes in/out another port. For example, consider an old analog TV with separate UHF and VHF tuners, connected to a common VHF/UHF antenna. A diplexer would route the VHF signals to the VHF tuner and the UHF signals to the UHF tuner.

A duplexer is a device that permits duplex operation (simultaneous transmit and receive) with one antenna and feedline. The most common example is a repeater duplexer. 

- CW/Morse - one is a modulation technique, the other is a way of sending information

Nope.

In a narrow context, "CW" stands for "continuous wave" - meaning an unmodulated carrier. "Morse", (meaning the code), is the code itself.

But in ham radio for the past 70 years or so they mean the same thing.

Here's how the term "CW" came about:

The first radio transmitters were spark sets. They generated a "damped" (modulated) wave, which could be received on just about any receiver. No BFO needed. You'd hear a buzz, not a pure tone. Various kinds of spark transmitters had different sounds but they were all damped waves, and they took up quite a bit of spectrum because the modulation was rather extreme.

So it wasn't long before radio transmitters were developed which generated an "undamped" (unmodulated, or continuous) wave. Arc converters, high frequency alternators, and finally tube transmitters generated "continuous" waves, which required heterodyne reception. "CW" became the acronym, to differentiate them from spark. Both used Morse Code, so there was no reason to include that part. When spark transmitters disappeared, the term "CW" stuck with all Morse Code transmitters because it's so short and concise.

btw, the modulation technique most often used for Morse Code is on-off keying, abbreviated "OOK". But nobody with any sense uses such a term in amateur radio; "CW" is just fine.

- SO239/PL259 - one is the socket, the other is the plug

Well, yeah, that's why one begins with SO and the other with PL.

Of course we can figure out what is being said. I just thought it would benefit those who don't know to know the actual names of parts.

True, but it's important to get the names right.

What misnomers have you seen creep in to the hobby?

Well there's "balum" instead of balun. The use of all-capitals "HAM" instead of "ham" (it's not an acronym). Don't know where they came from.

There are hams who can't spell "amateur" or "transceiver". Hams who don't know the difference between a key and a keyer.

Pretty minor stuff, really.

Of course there's the usual confusion about spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., which is common all over - hams don't have a corner on not knowing the difference between:

lose/loose
there/they're/their
too/two/to
it's/its

and many others. Not that big a deal, really.

What IMHO *is* a big deal, and worth discussing, is the all-too-common myths, misunderstandings, urban legends and downright lies which too many believe - and spread.

For example:

- the USB/LSB origin myth
- the "antenna tuners protect the transmitter from reflected power by dissipating it as heat" myth
- the "lossy traps" myth
- the resistive-loaded antenna myths
- various grounding myths (my favorite is the coax-with-disk-capacitors one)
- various origin-of-term myths about "ham", "73", etc.
- all sorts of myths about linear amplifiers and tubes, particularly transmitting tubes.

And much more. Some are just dumb, some are costly, some are downright dangerous.

Don't get me started about cathode resistors in Kenwood hybrid rigs....

73 de Jim, N2EY



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AK7V
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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2011, 03:40:42 PM »



What IMHO *is* a big deal, and worth discussing, is the all-too-common myths, misunderstandings, urban legends and downright lies which too many believe - and spread.

For example:

- the USB/LSB origin myth
- the "antenna tuners protect the transmitter from reflected power by dissipating it as heat" myth
- the "lossy traps" myth
- the resistive-loaded antenna myths
- various grounding myths (my favorite is the coax-with-disk-capacitors one)
- various origin-of-term myths about "ham", "73", etc.
- all sorts of myths about linear amplifiers and tubes, particularly transmitting tubes.

And much more. Some are just dumb, some are costly, some are downright dangerous.

Don't get me started about cathode resistors in Kenwood hybrid rigs....

73 de Jim, N2EY


These look like a good topic for a featured eHam article...
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K0OD
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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2011, 07:01:59 PM »

73 vs 73s now has its own website which I think came about after I noted on Eham that surviving W1AW (1AW) QSL cards were signed "73s" by The Old Man himself. End of debate.

http://73s.org/n7ice/blog/90?page=2&profile_id=1
http://www.mikezulu.com/73s.htm

N2EY, gotta say you've been a fountain of great posts lately. Son came home from engineering school yesterday with a new term, "amplitude modulation," to which I added "CW," carefully dodging the question of what was "continuous" about it.

Eham has at least one major article -- with zillions of comments -- on ham myths. Yes, a great subject.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 07:35:04 PM by K0OD » Logged
G3RZP
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« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2011, 03:36:05 AM »

I have a theory about the USB above 10 MHz business. Commercial HF SSB used to be generated at LF - 100 kHz or even lower - and heterodyned up to another IF. 3.1MHz was common in the UK: 2.8 MHz in one US tx. This allowed the use of crystals in around the 5 to 12 MHz range to be used to be used for mixing to final frequency (using harmonics where necessary),  but because the mixing was (crystal frequency - 3.1 MHz) for lower frequencies, sideband inversion occurred. For higher frequencies, it was crystal plus 3.1 MHz, so there was no inversion. Remember we are talking just pre and post WW2 here, so no synthesisers, and relatively narrow available frequency ranges for stable crystals. One source cites a CCIR Recommendation to use USB above 10 MHz and LSB below, but I have never managed to find it. So because early point to point commercial SSB used USB above 10 MHz, amateurs did so.  SSB for other than commercial circuits didn't catch on until Collins and the head of SAC pushed it, and then it became easier to always use USB, which is what the majority of commercial stuff uses today, except for the relatively few HF links using ISB, possibly with multiple data streams on one side and two telephone channels on the other.
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N2EY
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« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2011, 09:16:28 AM »

surviving W1AW (1AW) QSL cards were signed "73s" by The Old Man himself. End of debate.

Maybe not....

Maxim had quite a dry, Connecticut Yankee sense of humor; read his stories carefully and see. I think his use of "73s" was a way to poke fun at Final Authority kinds of folks....

N2EY, gotta say you've been a fountain of great posts lately. Son came home from engineering school yesterday with a new term, "amplitude modulation," to which I added "CW," carefully dodging the question of what was "continuous" about it.

Thanks! Tell son that CW is amplitude modulation on steroids....

---

The USB/LSB origin myth is that it derives from the use of a 9 MHz SSB generator and a 5 MHz VFO. covering 75 and 20 meters by difference and sum mixing. Sometimes various rigs are named in the myth - W2EWL's "Cheap And Easy SSB" (1956), the CE 10A, 10B, 20A (early 1950s), etc.

It sounds reasonable, and such rigs did exist. But it can't be true because the heterodyne process doesn't work that way. If you generate USB at 9 MHz and do the add-subtract thing with a 5 MHz VFO, you'll get USB on both 75 and 20. The VFO will tune backwards on 75 but you still get the same sideband you started with.

Turns out that in the late 1940s there was an article in QST (IIRC the author was Don Norgaard, W2KUJ, but not 100% sure). He described an SSB transmitter that generated LF SSB by the filter method and heterodyned it to around 5 MHz - I think in two steps. The 5 MHz SSB signal was USB.

The 5 MHz USB signal was then heterodyned to 75 and 20 by mixing with a 9 MHz VFO or xtal. With that scheme, you get LSB on 75 and USB on 20.

This was before there were any manufactured SSB rigs for hams - in fact, it was one of the first articles about SSB for hams. So it set the standard.

btw, there were a handful of hams using SSB in the early 1930s, but they were very few and far between. The equipment was too complex and expensive. W6DEI, Ray Moore, was perhaps the best known. His transmitter was described in R9 magazine back then.

G3RZP's description of commercial standards explains commercial practice, which probably influenced early SSB amateurs such as W2KUJ.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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G3RZP
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« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2011, 09:52:25 AM »

Don Norgaard achieved fame with his phasing designs, such as SSB Jr and so on. These enabled a lot of people in the 1950's to produce SSB - well, SSB of sorts! There was generally a wanted sideband and somewhat smaller unwanted sideband.....
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