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Author Topic: meta issue: "Deep Impact" thread locked  (Read 13977 times)
KE5JPP
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2011, 06:34:31 AM »

What typically happens with guys like W4HIJ is that they get frustrated when they cannot argue with the facts presented and/or the facts are leading them to a conclusion contrary to what they want to believe.  When this happens they respond with name calling, just like W4HIJ did in the deep impact thread that has been locked.  Then when they realize that they have lost it and resorted to name calling, they blame their actions on someone else claiming that they were "pushed" into it. 

Gene
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W4HIJ
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Posts: 367




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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 09:39:28 AM »

 When this happens they respond with name calling, just like W4HIJ did in the deep impact thread that has been locked. 

The Deep Impact thread was locked because of W4HIJ's name calling. The moderator deleted most of his nasty name calling posts. He sunk to a new low in that thread and the moderators censored him...

Stan K9IUQ

That is an out and out lie! I made exactly two post in that thread. One where someone else referred to you and Gene in an unflattering manner and I cracked a joke and another in which I referred to you as "the ten year old". That is the only post that was deleted and I don't really know why because I don't consider calling you  "the ten year old" NASTY. It is my opinion that you act like a child. You constantly back that opinion up, over and over and over again.  I'm sorry if you consider that a NASTY name but it pales in comparison to the insults that have been hurled at me on a regular basis by you. Why? Because I dared to say I was enjoying my Flex radio and had not encountered some of the issues you and a small minority of other users had. In a nutshell, that is all I've ever said. Because of that statement I have been called a "moron" and derisively referred to as a "no code general"  among other things by you. Then you had the absolute gall to insult the memory of my late father, one of the finest  ham radio ops there ever was. How dare you!
 I could go on and on  and go back and quote the myriad of post where you have insulted me ten times more than I ever have you but it's pointless and would furhter lower me to the level of childishness that you exhibit on a daily basis. Unfortunately I've let you and Gene draw me down to your level far too many times already. I swear if I thought all hams were like you and Gene, I would quit the hobby but thankfully they are not.
 You give me too much credit if you think it was me who got one of your Flex bashing threads locked. Believe me I WISH I could get all your bile and vitriol ridden threads locked!
Have a nice life and enjoy the hobby Stan and quit with all the BS!  Oh and you and Gene go ahead and be sure and get the last word in, I wouldn't expect anything less from
children!
Michael
 
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 10:08:14 AM »

 When this happens they respond with name calling, just like W4HIJ did in the deep impact thread that has been locked. 

The Deep Impact thread was locked because of W4HIJ's name calling. The moderator deleted most of his nasty name calling posts. He sunk to a new low in that thread and the moderators censored him...

Stan K9IUQ

That is an out and out lie! I made exactly two post in that thread. One where someone else referred to you and Gene in an unflattering manner and I cracked a joke and another in which I referred to you as "the ten year old". That is the only post that was deleted and I don't really know why because I don't consider calling you  "the ten year old" NASTY. It is my opinion that you act like a child. You constantly back that opinion up, over and over and over again.  I'm sorry if you consider that a NASTY name but it pales in comparison to the insults that have been hurled at me on a regular basis by you. Why? Because I dared to say I was enjoying my Flex radio and had not encountered some of the issues you and a small minority of other users had. In a nutshell, that is all I've ever said. Because of that statement I have been called a "moron" and derisively referred to as a "no code general"  among other things by you. Then you had the absolute gall to insult the memory of my late father, one of the finest  ham radio ops there ever was. How dare you!
 I could go on and on  and go back and quote the myriad of post where you have insulted me ten times more than I ever have you but it's pointless and would furhter lower me to the level of childishness that you exhibit on a daily basis. Unfortunately I've let you and Gene draw me down to your level far too many times already. I swear if I thought all hams were like you and Gene, I would quit the hobby but thankfully they are not.
 You give me too much credit if you think it was me who got one of your Flex bashing threads locked. Believe me I WISH I could get all your bile and vitriol ridden threads locked!
Have a nice life and enjoy the hobby Stan and quit with all the BS!  Oh and you and Gene go ahead and be sure and get the last word in, I wouldn't expect anything less from
children!
Michael
 


This is exactly what I was talking about.  W4HIJ files off the handle any time he is confronted with facts that he does not like.  He blames anyone and everyone for his bad behavior except for himself.

Gene
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K5TR
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 10:31:56 AM »

This thread is a perfect example of the reasons that I locked the Deep Impact thread in the SDR forum and why I have removed messages/threads that are not on topic but are just people fighting with one another.  

I do not want to step in, I do not enjoy it, I see it as a waste of time.  But I also know that from time to time I will have to step in.  I have limited ways that I can attempt to control posting behavior.  As anyone who frequents eham knows we do not step in very often.  There are many out there that would say that we are much much to forgiving and should tightly control all discussions. I do not agree with them. But it is clear to me that some amount of control is needed - even if it just to keep borads on topic and to prevent spam or other such undesired activity.  One only needs to look at USENET to see what a totally open environment will produce.

Generally things work just fine here on eham - for the most part our users do a great job of controlling their own posts and not posting totally off topic things or spam or profanity or threatening or attacking other users or any number of other disruptive behaviors.  I know it can work even with many users.  

Every so often a user will cross the line and will need to be reminded and posts might get removed - and then things are fine again. There have been other users that just do not know how to interact in public and those we ask to leave.  This is much like telling a visitor to your home that they are no longer welcome and they can leave now.  I do not like to do that, I much prefer users to control themselves and  contribute to the discussions in useful ways.

We all share a love for this hobby, or at least I think we do, otherwise why even here on eham?  We should be able to get along in public discourse.  

Think before you post, take a walk around the block, go tune the bands, maybe even let a day pass (sleep on it) then come back and think about your post before you release it to the world.

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George
K5TR
W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2011, 10:47:10 AM »

George, I apologize and I had said all I was going to a few post back. But I refuse to standby and have someone smear me with an out and out lie. Being that you are the one who locked the thread and did said deletion of the post, you know for a fact, it's a lie. I thought my last post was very measured and controlled considering what I have been put through by these two individuals. I'll say no more but I just could not let that one go.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 10:51:24 AM by W4HIJ » Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2011, 06:42:33 AM »

Well George, their bad behavior is exactly as I described to you in my e-mail. One of the worst violators is on this thread denouncing the same activities he has engaged in for years. Again, the biggest complainers are the biggest violators!  Wink  
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 07:25:04 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
K0OD
Member

Posts: 2546




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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2011, 01:46:52 PM »


Quote
"BTW, I'm active in several wildly successful for-profit, non-hobby groups where discussion of post and thread removal is banned..."
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2011, 07:47:57 AM »

OK, I am not buying the administrator's explanation for why the Deep Impact was locked.

If you want to see name calling and threats of bodily harm, see this out of control thread here on eHam:

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,75085.0.html

It contains messages such as "Well, Jerry, it DOES sound like you need your ass kicked. Hopefully someday a car load of HAMS will show up at your QTH and you will get whats coming to you. "  and "A quick look at the grammar, punctuation, and capitalization in KD5UDE's posts should give us an estimate of the length of the bus he rode to school." as well as "HAHAHAHAHA You're a moron and I'm glad you've been banned from this site. I can only hope every other site you have an account on does the same as well. I love it when double-digit IQ folks try to drop the legal stuff on people. "

K5TR: WHY is the thread above allowed to continue with much WORSE language/behavior/messages and yet the infinitely more benign Flex Deep Impact thread was locked??? 

It seems that there must be other reasons in light of that abusive thread I just referenced above.

Gene
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K5TR
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2011, 07:58:55 AM »


K5TR: WHY is the thread above allowed to continue with much WORSE language/behavior/messages and yet the infinitely more benign Flex Deep Impact thread was locked??? 


I will have to look at it, but it is likely due to the thread not being reported and pointed out.
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George
K5TR
K5TR
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2011, 08:48:36 AM »


K5TR: WHY is the thread above allowed to continue with much WORSE language/behavior/messages and yet the infinitely more benign Flex Deep Impact thread was locked??? 


Ahhh, in the Stolen Equipment forum.... that has sort of turned into the "Scam Forum".  We have been talking about what to do about that fourm.  We have been doing almost no moderation in that forum but I do know that one or more of the posters in the thread you asked about have had their posting privileges removed.

But while I was over there looking at things I realized that we needed to move all of the scam stuff out of
the stolen gear forum - we should have made that move over a year ago or more - as the stolen gear forum
not serving it's real purpose by being cluttered with all of the scam talk.

Now the question becomes what to do with the scam posts - one thought we have discussed has been to just get rid of that entire forum and not allow those sorts of posts at all on the system.  But, as you can see that action has not been taken.  Maybe we need to start a thread here in site talk to decide what to do with those sorts of posts.  It is obvious that things often get quite heated in those postings.

As far as Deep Impact goes - I can unlock it - but I am not sure how that changes things with that topic.
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George
K5TR
K5TR
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2011, 12:52:58 PM »


If you do not like the message, get rid of the messenger...


I have not gotten rid of you or anyone else that has been vocal in the SDR forum.
Seeing how the bickering and attacks are happening in this thread that is about why
a topic was locked (for bickering and attacks) is making me think that banning users
and deleting entire threads would be an easier and quicker solution.  But that is not my style.
If it were we would not even be having this discussion in the site talk forum.

I would think that you would be the first to admit that we have given you a lot of freedom to post
in our forums.  Do you really feel that you have not been allowed to express your views?  Maybe you should go and look at some of 900+ posts you have made that are on this system.
I could be wrong but I think we have only removed a very few of those 900+ posts.
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George
K5TR
KE5JPP
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2011, 12:58:44 PM »


K5TR: WHY is the thread above allowed to continue with much WORSE language/behavior/messages and yet the infinitely more benign Flex Deep Impact thread was locked??? 


I will have to look at it, but it is likely due to the thread not being reported and pointed out.


This is what I was implying in my earlier message.  I guess when the majority thinks that calling an alleged scammer a "moron" or worse is OK and goes unreported.

I really don't see what is wrong with a heated debate as long as name calling and threats of personal violence are not involved.  Heck, almost all threads in the forums on eHam involve heated debates. There is example after example.  eHam would be BORING if everyone agreed on every topic.

As Stan has pointed out, the pro-Flex guys tend to complain about any post not favorable to Flex.  When they run out of rational arguments, they resort to complaining obviously.

Gene
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AA4HA
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Posts: 1386




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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 07:14:49 AM »

Sometimes taking a step back and breathing some different air can give you perspective. I have had one or two of my comments  moderated away. Usually it is on some topic that I feel really strongly on and I go for the nuclear option. (re... why are there not more women in amateur radio)  Roll Eyes

Usually I self moderate and write up things yet never hit the post button. Sometimes posting just belabors the point at hand and really does not serve any other purpose. Since this posting is in "Site Talk" I will assume it has less to do with the FlexRadio debate and more about the en-flamed passions of having a thread locked/removed or postings moderated away.

There are places that are much more tyrannical about moderation or permanent bans than eHam. In some of those there is clearly an agenda at hand that may be guided by the commercial financial contributors to a site. Moderators are frequently challenged by their own opinions and a desire to steer a conversation. After 20+ years of internet/bbs activities my opinion is that eHam has probably one of the least visible moderation system (this is mostly a good thing).

We all need to "get over ourselves" and realize that freedom of expression does carry some burden of personal responsibility. Sometimes I think that there would be many more instances of finding seconds and dueling at dawn with pistols if this was not a forum.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 09:05:55 AM »

As George knows, we have a small group of self-appointed expert techno-bullies that repeatedly flame and then complain about certain posters. Unfortunately, they are using the sites' search features to stalk others they don't like. Whenever the target posts, the gang goes after them. The fact that they are still here leads users to believe that someone is playing favorites! This makes the eHam.net experience less than wonderful. Sad  

I believe that when a user complains about another poster stalking and or threatening them on the site and there is clear evidence of that, they should be stopped from posting for a month, at least.  Lips sealed
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:09:41 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
K5TR
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Posts: 387


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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 08:05:12 PM »

Also I bring a lot of eyeballs to the SDR Forum. Eyeballs that are looking at eham advertisements. 5 of the 10 most viewed threads in the eham SDR Forum was started by K9IUQ. The most viewed SDR thread has over 13,600 views and was started by K9IUQ.

This is an interesting comment to me for several reasons.

- Because there is at least one other person who keeps telling something similar - that I choose
  to do things (or not do things) with forum posts because they bring more ad revenue.

- The forums on eHam get about 5% of the traffic of the entire site.  I could turn the forums off and
  it would reduce ad views by less than 5%.

- I never think of any of the site content in this manner - except in a general way of
  what would be cool or useful to do with the site in the way of content or features.
  Since I figure if we can provide something interesting then that will be a good thing.
  And in turn that would attract more visitors to the site. 
  But not because I think it will bring in more ad revenue.
  I think how can I make the site better.

Maybe changing the forums into a system like some of the more tightly controlled ham radio forums out there would be make for a 'better' site or even be a 'good thing'.  But, I think that I would vote for just removing the forums entirely instead of putting very strict moderation in place.  And who knows - maybe that is the answer.  It would free me up to do other things.
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George
K5TR
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