Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why are Honda generators so expensive?  (Read 75190 times)
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3879




Ignore
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2012, 05:23:54 AM »

Comparing gasoline to a generator is not valid.

Using your logic everyone should purchase
the lowest priced goods or services.


Actually it is VERY good logic. you buy gas and it does not have to be a certain brand to work well.

That's because gasoline has to meet certain quality standards in order to be sold in the USA. Most Americans buy gasoline so often that if someone sold truly bad gas, word would get around and they'd be out of business fast.

Generators are a completely different story. Particularly ones that aren't used a lot.

You do not need to pay a 3x premium in price to get reliable gas and same for a reliable generator. The quality of many generators is quite good and Honda motors are no longer the preferred motor for name brand top end commercial generators. Now it is Vanguard (built by a Toyota owned company in Japan for Briggs) as motor of choice with a superb track record and Subaru up there now too. Plus as stated before some units even use Honda motor clones that will interchange parts fully with Honda motors and are made in China and cost far less. There was a time long ago when Honda had little competition but that time is long passed.

The mere fact that a knock-off part will interchange doesn't mean it's as good as a part made by the original manufacturer. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't; you don't really KNOW until it's done. And then it may be too late.

The fact that you may have had good luck with a small number of generators of a certain origin doesn't mean they're all good. Even the worst suppliers can usually make at least some good ones. The important question is how a large sample performs.

Of course in some things it doesn't matter all that much. In some things, if you get a bad one, you just take it back or throw it away, and go on to the next. But when you buy something for emergency use, you don't want to find out that it's no good when you really, really need it and there are no stores open.

A good example is glass transmitting tubes. There was a time when Eimac 3-500Zs, RCA 811As and Cetron 572Bs were pretty much standard for US hams. We bought 'em, they worked, and they were all pretty much the same. Occasionally a bad one would show up but they were few and far between.

The "clone" tubes you can get now are a very different story. Sure, some good ones get through, but a lot are no good right from the factory, and others have short life in service. Many suppliers deal with the problem by testing them in their own facilities - because they can't trust the manufacturer.

There is also the fact that Honda and some others have seen fit to build factories here in the USA and do at least some manufacturing here. That pushes the price up, because Americans tend not to work for slave wages - yet. You may not care about this - but you should, because it will affect you sooner or later. The current Great Recession is due in part to our long-term exportation of jobs and industries to low-wage countries. We're losing the "race to the bottom".

73 de Jim, N2EY
Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5784




Ignore
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2012, 09:30:49 AM »

Actually you do not need much of a warranty to be reliable because a longer warranty can be added for marketing and you PAY FOR IT in purchase price. NOTHING is free.  I have a 3k China built generator I got for 200 bucks over 5 years ago and it has been 100% reliable and usually starts in one pull, two at very most. Last summer when I drug it out of storage it had not been run for 2 years. When I put fresh gas in it and turned on fuel valve it started right up and ran it two days without a hitch. When I am done with it I run carb dry and drain oil and cover it up and store it. I store it with bottle of 5w20 and straight 30 so I can put in the right oil for time of year I need it. If it blew up next time I used it (not likely) and would buy another like it next day because you can replace it cheaper than it cost to fix a expensive one. .
Logged

--------------------------------------
All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
K5PHW
Member

Posts: 69




Ignore
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2012, 09:54:37 AM »

 From someone who repairs OPE for a living, the chinese parts are NOT compatible
with genuine Honda.
 Buy chinese if you wish, but good luck finding parts or service.  Wink

Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5784




Ignore
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2012, 10:19:11 AM »

From someone who repairs OPE for a living, the chinese parts are NOT compatible
with genuine Honda.
 Buy chinese if you wish, but good luck finding parts or service.  Wink


Well it might depend on "flavor" of clone but I know a guy that repair power equipment and he uses non Honda parts on repairs all the time without any issues. He also tells owners that he is doing it too to save them money and they like that. 
Logged

--------------------------------------
All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
K5PHW
Member

Posts: 69




Ignore
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2012, 10:54:48 AM »

 Does he sell bait and tackle as well?  Shocked
Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5784




Ignore
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2012, 05:59:45 PM »

Does he sell bait and tackle as well?  Shocked


No. Tell me this when you need a car part do you go to the car dealer and pay full price or after market and pay far far less.

Several years ago I needed a new fuel tank for a GM truck and dealer wanted over 500 for it. Funny thing is GM does not make them and have not for many many years. A company up in Canada made them for GM at the time. You could buy the EXACT same tank locally through car parts store for 130 bucks. BTW it was same tank because the stamping markings matched old one too. A new Timken front wheel bearing hub for same truck is over 700 at dealer but under 300 locally at discount parts for the exact same one.

Point is paying more does not always get you more.  You can get a reliable generator for far less than a Honda. And, if you dig deep enough you might even find that Honda makes some of their parts in China too to boost profits. 

Logged

--------------------------------------
All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




Ignore
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2012, 05:33:24 AM »

True, but the other hand, counterfeit parts also result in fatal car and plane crashes. Sometimes the part might even be coming from the same assembly line, but not have passed quality control for some reason.
Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5784




Ignore
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2012, 06:42:37 AM »

True, but the other hand, counterfeit parts also result in fatal car and plane crashes. Sometimes the part might even be coming from the same assembly line, but not have passed quality control for some reason.

I think you miss the point here. Manufactures make less and less of their own parts and outsource them and then sell them as their own parts after labeling them genuine and marking them up a lot. I have a friend that that is a manager in a chain auto parts store and he told me the GM is patenting a lot of new part designs in last 7 years now so that third parties have to pay a high licensing fee to sell directly to public and some part they do not allow being sold directly to maintain higher profits.
Logged

--------------------------------------
All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




Ignore
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2012, 07:34:37 AM »

Yes, I was not negating your argument, only pointing out that if you buy an "off brand" part, you have to take care that you actually get what you think you get. Perhaps you'll get the same quality as the branded product, or perhaps you'll get parts that don't pass the same specifications as the branded part. Some factories do it like that - they put the best production runs in the branded packaging, and put different branding on less successful runs.

For example, I've visited a paper factory who did it like that; they ran tests on their pulp and assigned brand names to it depending on the quality. You would often get lucky with the no-name paper, but you could also get unlucky. Also, some manufacturers of aircraft parts unload their non-passing production runs for non-aircraft customers, which led to problems when fraudsters tried to save money by buying those non-approved parts and putting them on aircraft anyway.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 07:40:03 AM by LA9XSA » Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5784




Ignore
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2012, 08:35:52 AM »

Wishful thinking. To control costs many companies out source parts and GM even out sources a several engines these days. They are building less and less of their parts and just basically assembling the pieces.  While counter fit parts can be problem in aircraft industry, particularly in engine parts which require rigid testing, it really is not a issue in this subject. You can go to a part store and buy the same exact same starter, alternator, fuel pump etc as auto makers use and for far less in many cases.

Brand name is all about profit far more than quality because most things are outsourced. Even Apple which is always trying to protect brand name heavily depends on third parties to make its parts. It is kinda funny that Apple is in a big feud with Samsung over phone software because Samsung also makes a lot of key hardware parts for Iphone and Ipad and Apple would be SOL without them.
Logged

--------------------------------------
All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
K3WEC
Member

Posts: 260




Ignore
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2012, 12:43:30 PM »

I'll have to do a little digging to find out where the Honda small engines are made.  I'll take a shot in the dark here - China.   Perhaps I'm wrong...
Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5784




Ignore
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2012, 01:40:25 PM »

I'll have to do a little digging to find out where the Honda small engines are made.  I'll take a shot in the dark here - China.   Perhaps I'm wrong...

Post what you find. A lot of high quality items come out of China. Labor is cheap there and many manufactures use them today to boost profit margins.
Logged

--------------------------------------
All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
K3WEC
Member

Posts: 260




Ignore
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2012, 05:28:34 PM »

A cursory check indicates Thailand for the GX (advertised as commercial quality) series of Honda engines.   That's from a single source though, so I'll look some more when I get time.
Logged
K5PHW
Member

Posts: 69




Ignore
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2012, 05:11:48 AM »

 Thailand is correct. Also Swepsonville and still some in Japan.  Wink
Logged
W4FID
Member

Posts: 132




Ignore
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2012, 03:31:15 AM »

You do pay for quality and for name. But the cliche "you get what you pay for" and "no such thing as a free lunch" have been around for a long time because they are true.

If you need a part a few years from now will the big box store Chinese unit be fixable? Better odds with a name brand.

If you have a major thing -- say a hurricane -- and run it for a few days will the less expensive one still be running? The difference in original cost will seem small if it dies and you loose food in your freezer or have to drive 150 miles to an expensive motel because your emergency planning depended on a cheap generator that died. Better odds with a name brand.

How clean is the power? Your circular saw or lights don't care much -- but your freezer and especially your electronic stuff will be killed by spikes and dirty power. Electronics know if it's a square or sawtooth or sine wave coming at them. Voltage variation with speed with changes in load are problems with less regulated (less expensive) units. As you turn lights or fans or heaters or your frig or AC cycles the load changes -- especially anything with a motor with a high start current -- and your other stuff may not like variations as it tries to run along. Better odds with a name brand.
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!