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Author Topic: freebanders  (Read 10429 times)
K8IO
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Posts: 16




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« on: November 11, 2011, 03:22:28 PM »

OK, Here we go. Stirring the pot just a bit.  Wink A lot of conversing and grumbling about freebanders here and how it is fall out of CB. I propose it isnt. Here is why. I had a dear old ham friend who is a SK now. Tell me of operating on then 5 meters without a license. And they had quite a group of regulars that operated without licenses. And his Bust from the FCC. He said the fcc looked his station over and told him the only thing he needed was a license. Made him promise to NOT operate again till he got one. Which he did. This was LONG before CB was even a thought. There are freebanders operating on bands far removed from the 11 meter bands.  People want to communicate, but not all will go to the efforts to get a license. Some just like to resist authority. Others are just lazy. Manufacturers are only more than willing to oblige them and make a buck.
 
 
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K0OD
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 05:50:36 PM »

Quote
operating on then 5 meters

Are you talking about the old five meter band in the 1920s thru the 1940s? Five meters became TV channel two in the late 40s so free banding there would have been spotted immediately. 
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K8IO
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 06:40:28 PM »

Quote
operating on then 5 meters

Are you talking about the old five meter band in the 1920s thru the 1940s? 

Yes, I am. And that is the point I was trying to make. Freebanding is not new, nor exclusive to the 11 meter band.
Unlicensed operation is as old as Licensed radio itself. 
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AE4RV
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 04:29:23 AM »

Older, actually. Is this supposed to make me feel better about unlawful voice modes in the CW portion of 10 meters?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:51:07 AM by AE4RV » Logged
K8IO
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2011, 12:46:02 PM »

Older, actually. Is this supposed to make me feel better about unlawful voice modes in the CW portion of 10 meters?
I dont know, does it? It is a statement of fact. Frankly I would not waste much time on them. It is a futile effort till the FCC decides it is a priority. 
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AE4RV
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2011, 01:10:18 PM »

Older, actually. Is this supposed to make me feel better about unlawful voice modes in the CW portion of 10 meters?
"I dont know, does it?"  - No.

"It is a statement of fact."  - OK.

"Frankly I would not waste much time on them."  - You brought it up.

"It is a futile effort till the FCC decides it is a priority."  - True, but when I encounter illegal interference while trying to snag a new entity, I tend to feel bad. I'm not made of stone. 

Unlicensed QRM is the worst kind, at least psychologically, because it's not supposed to exist. But yeah, it's there and not much can be done about it. And, not all of it originates in this country. We have to accept it for the most part, sure.

If you want to shake hands and agree that this is an old problem that's not going anywhere, fine, I can do that.

But, I'm not going to accept it anymore just because someone is QRMiing me on 10 with an heirloom radio, handed down from generations of unlicensed scofflaws.
 73
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K8IO
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2011, 09:00:46 AM »

Older, actually. Is this supposed to make me feel better about unlawful voice modes in the CW portion of 10 meters?
"I dont know, does it?"  - No.

"It is a statement of fact."  - OK.

"Frankly I would not waste much time on them."  - You brought it up.

"It is a futile effort till the FCC decides it is a priority."  - True, but when I encounter illegal interference while trying to snag a new entity, I tend to feel bad. I'm not made of stone. 

Unlicensed QRM is the worst kind, at least psychologically, because it's not supposed to exist. But yeah, it's there and not much can be done about it. And, not all of it originates in this country. We have to accept it for the most part, sure.

If you want to shake hands and agree that this is an old problem that's not going anywhere, fine, I can do that.

But, I'm not going to accept it anymore just because someone is QRMiing me on 10 with an heirloom radio, handed down from generations of unlicensed scofflaws.
 73
LOL, agreed on the handshake. I like the heirloom comment. Yea, interference like that ticks me off also. If they are speaking in a language I can comprehend. I might briefly let them know that they have passed into an area that people are watching who do care that they are there, and that they should leave. Doubtful they will leave right then. But if they know they are being watched they might not come back. I might even briefly suggest to them that they look up arrl.org about getting a license. I would NOT try to QRM them into leaving. Geez, that is just as bad or worse than they are.
  The point I would make is Bootleggers might become good HAMS. The guy I spoke of was a leader in introducing and experimenting with new modes to the ham community in his time. Like FM and ATV. Just because they didnt enter into the hobby the "right" way does not mean they are not worth mentoring or bringing along. In Amongst the idiots, I think there is some unrealized talent out there on 11 meters. These are the guys are interested in communicating and learning. Just like hams. Invite them to a club meeting, hold a class to become a ham. My father used to have a saying "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". I would not operate Freeband, I do use a cb from time to time. And the locals know I am a ham and there are a couple studying for their license.
I hope they get them.
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ONAIR
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Posts: 1747




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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2011, 12:43:54 PM »

In addition to CB, there are plenty of other places to operate without a license:

FRS
1750 meter band-1 watt to a small antenna
The AM broadcast band, if you use the right amount of power-100mw and a 3 meter antenna
There is a 14khz wide area at 13.56mhz to operate as well

73s John AA5JG
    Interesting.  Are there stations actually operating on 1750 Meters or 13.56 Mhz?
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W7ETA
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 06:15:27 AM »

'....freebanders here and how it is fall out of CB. I propose it isnt."

Illegal transmitting, steal spectrum allocated for use, is not new.

Regardless of why people steal spectrum, or what they call the theft, it is still illegal.

Now that 10 meters is opening once again, we will be able to hear illegals from all over the world.

73
Bob
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BOOTYMONSTER
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Posts: 73




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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 09:39:06 AM »

how many of you folks that appoint yourself to be frequency police pull yourself over and give yourself a ticket when you are speeding ? or driving when you know you've had a beer/drink too many ? or go turn yourself in to the IRS when you fudge your taxes a hair ?

i'm guessing none .........
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 10:12:21 AM by BOOTYMONSTER » Logged
AK4KZ
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 10:27:52 AM »

how many of you folks that appoint yourself to be frequency police pull yourself over and give yourself a ticket when you are speeding ? or driving when you know you've had a beer/drink too many ? or go turn yourself in to the IRS when you fudge your taxes a hair ?

i'm guessing none .........

If I'm speeding, it's accidental. Not because I went out and bought a really fast car so I could drive on roads that require a licensed operator even though I don't have one. (which  I do.. but I assume this is an example, right?). I would never drive after having a beer/drink. Perhaps after having a beer and waiting a couple hours. (Really curtails the idea of having a drink when I'm out unless I want to spend the night there. It IS inconvenient sometimes.) And I've never "fudged" on my taxes. not even a hair. I even actually "buy" music.

(Does that mean I can be the frequency police?)

Just because people do wrong, doesn't make it right. Irresponsible is irresponsible just as much as unethical is unethical. If you're supposed to get a license to operate in those freqs, then why not? Bad rules need to be reworked or revoked.. not ignored. And the licensed ham who keys up and purposefully interferes with someone is no less at fault.

73,
Chris
AK4KZ

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N1NQC
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Posts: 65




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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 02:54:01 PM »

Hey All,

OK,here we go- free banders (again).

 First of all I do not condone freeband activity  within  the 10 M band or QRM'ing an on air  licensed service.

There are a lot of "listed" services along in the traditional free band range ("petroleum", ,etc) .Frankly, I have NEVER heard any of them in 40 + years of (admittedly) on and off  listening.

While it does not make it RIGHT for a free bander to operate on,  for example  a  ("supposed") "petroleum" frequency, there is a sort of real world "use it or lose" it mentality.If it's  vacant, folks will use it.It is my SUPPOSITION (only) that a lot of these licenses are not being used much (or at all ) anymore.

The CW portion of 10 M is obviously NOT vacant though  and any "smart" free bander would  stay out of there. They have "free run" from around 26 Mhz (or lower) all the  way through 28.0 Mhz ( including CB).

And while  many of us may not want to admit it, many (if not MOST) of the "older" hams got started on IN BAND CB. And within that group there was a minority that "drifted" ("accidentally" of course ) into the free band.It's like those who took a few puffs of something "naughty" in way back college but don't do it now. Today many of them will NEVER admit in "polite" company that they ever did it  .

Frankly I DO listen on the free band and find some (or many) of the operators as  "well behaved " as some of the ham bands. But at other times it's  childish or obscene. Some of them WOULD make good hams, but for WHATEVER reason ("lazy",  anti- establishment, etc) they don't get licenses.

One of my main gripes is the self (or group) issued "call signs" ,silly stuff like  "FT 2756 AB 56".
Being a ham I like REAL call signs so I have at least an IDEA what country  someone is in.Although fun to listen to as alternative to ham radio, free banders can get tedious after a while.I often just use them as "propagation indicators" to see what conditions are like in  between 10 M  and 12 M.

FWIW I did hear a nice QSO today between MI and S .UK- w/ Q codes, 5/9 reports etc.

To me the major issue is whether one is causing  QRM , THEN we can discuss the unlicensed aspect of it.

Free banding is  OBVIOUSLY NOT a big priority at the FCC ( OT- along with the HIGH powered Boston area  AM b'cast band pirates that stay on the air for 14 yrs + -OR- the   licensed AM  b'cast stations that don't ID or won't  adhere to power/pattern requirements, etc, etc ).

Oh well, blame Uncle Sam.

de N1NQC
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 03:11:13 PM by N1NQC » Logged
ONAIR
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Posts: 1747




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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 04:06:10 PM »

how many of you folks that appoint yourself to be frequency police pull yourself over and give yourself a ticket when you are speeding ? or driving when you know you've had a beer/drink too many ? or go turn yourself in to the IRS when you fudge your taxes a hair ?

i'm guessing none .........
  Hams are just trying to protect our spectrum.  Freebanders are now all over the place, many using the exact same HF radios and antennas  that were designed specifically for amateurs!  Most of these freebanders are operating on frequencies in between the Ham bands, and some have actually be heard as low as just above the AM broadcast band!  With all that spectrum available for them to break the law, why must they go onto frequencies specifically allocated for licensed Hams?
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N2EY
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2011, 04:10:54 PM »

A lot of conversing and grumbling about freebanders here and how it is fall out of CB. I propose it isnt.

You're wrong. "Freebanding" came from cb folks moving out of the channels and into adjacent frequencies.

operating on then 5 meters without a license. And they had quite a group of regulars that operated without licenses. And his Bust from the FCC. He said the fcc looked his station over and told him the only thing he needed was a license. Made him promise to NOT operate again till he got one. Which he did.

What he did was called "bootlegging" back then (the 1920s-1930s). It was rare but not unknown. Freebanding is different.

Note that in those days your friend's setup would have not gone very far on 5 meters. More important, he STOPPED and went legit.  

This was LONG before CB was even a thought.

Not really. Your friend was probabluy on 5 meters in the 1930s. UHF cb was authorized right after WW2. 11 meter cb came along in 1958.

Freebanding as we know it came about in the 1970s.

There are freebanders operating on bands far removed from the 11 meter bands. 


Name some.

People want to communicate, but not all will go to the efforts to get a license.

What "efforts" does it really take to get an amateur radio license today? A couple of multiple-choice tests from a published pool, given by volunteers. 74% is the passing grade. Elementary school children have achieved the top license class.

So it's not about "effort".

73 de jim, N2EY

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W7ETA
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2011, 07:40:35 AM »

Theft of spectrum is still theft--it does not matter what you call it. 
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