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Author Topic: Use of "=" in CW QSO's  (Read 6345 times)
QUEDAWG
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« on: November 16, 2011, 06:10:27 AM »

I am using AA9PW website to learn the code and have gotten to the point of listeniung to the simulated QSO's to practice.  In the simulations an = sign seems to be used in place of a period.  Is this the standard for CW or is a quirk of his simulations?
73
KN1JLK
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N2EY
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 06:16:48 AM »

If you mean "dahdidididah" (usually written as BT), it is common in amateur CW. The period takes longer and is considered "formal".

73 de Jim, N2EY
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 07:25:11 AM »

I remember the coastal stn PCH was transmitting full spelled STOP as separator in news bc bulletins for ships.
Nowadays hams use the -...- as separator of items.

73
Bob
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N3QE
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 08:43:13 AM »

I am using AA9PW website to learn the code and have gotten to the point of listeniung to the simulated QSO's to practice.  In the simulations an = sign seems to be used in place of a period.  Is this the standard for CW or is a quirk of his simulations?
73
KN1JLK

More traditionally (at least in US Hamdom... euro guys are weird with their nomenclature) this is called "BT" with an overbar. And yeah it is used as a separator, something like a period. Or sometimes more like the CW equivalent of an "err.... ummm...." but that is not considered ideal form.
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QUEDAWG
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 09:19:23 AM »

Thanks for all the great replies.
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 08:58:09 AM »



More traditionally (at least in US Hamdom... euro guys are weird with their nomenclature) this is called "BT" with an overbar.

OK. but I am not not a representative sample of euro guys.

When I look for Morse code in ARRL handbooks, I can't find the code (dead?)
but in the RSGB handbook (FYI Radio Society of Great Britain) they gave it.
There are the usual prosigns but not <BT> dahdidididah is double hyphen =

OK, GB is European, can't find a USA source right now..
Yes I can, ARRL handbook 1957: double dash dahdidididah. Nothing said there about prosign <BT>
In that epoch they sold already Vibroplex gold plated. That handbook is crammed with commercial ads.
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AA4PB
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 09:39:29 AM »

As I recall, historically the prosign was BT with an overbar. When computer screens came along there was no way to display the overbar and keyboards didn't have such a character. The = sign has been adapted as the computer equivalent to BT for display purposes. There are also other special characters that have become sort of a standard replacement for a number of other prosigns.
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 10:36:52 AM »

OK
My source is ARRL (hence USA) handbook 1957. Not much computers in 1957. IBM1620 , Siemens TR4...

IBM1620 was EBCDIC punch cards in- and output, TR4 punched tape were not yet designed.
ZEBRA acronym for very simple binary calculating machine, worked with relays.

So that does not seem a valid argument to me. Other prosigns such as <AR> <KA> <SK> are present in that source. (ARRL 1957)
dahdidididah is international Morse code for =

RCA international Morse reference card
says dahdidididah double dash
if it is also listed as 'break', that makes the code ambiguous, because the receiver side can't know wether it is a message separator or part of the message.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 07:18:27 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
N2EY
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 11:12:42 AM »

Yes I can, ARRL handbook 1957: double dash dahdidididah. Nothing said there about prosign <BT>
In that epoch they sold already Vibroplex gold plated. That handbook is crammed with commercial ads.

ARRL used to have fairly extensive ad sections in many of their publications, most notably the Handbook.

But in the 1970s or so they stopped.

The reason was US postal regulations. Printed material with advertisement pays a higher rate than printed material without advertisement. The difference was so great that it made economic sense to drop the ads and pay the lower rate. Otherwise, they would have been forced to increase the prices.

Imagine - it would have cost more to buy a book with ads than one without them!

---

The move from the beloved old "small format" (6.5 by 9.5 inches) books and QST to the current "large format" was forced by a similar reason.

US printers abandoned the old size in the 1970s, and it cost less to print at a standard size. (They could still print small-format, but what they would do is print large-format and then trim it down, adding cost and wasting paper).

The old small-format was perfect for study hall in school, though. You'd pick a large-format textbook and put the latest QST inside it. Unless somebody looked over your shoulder, it appeared that you were studying algebra or Spanish or whatever....

Not that I personally ever did anything like that.....

73 de Jim, N2EY

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N3QE
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 12:39:55 PM »



More traditionally (at least in US Hamdom... euro guys are weird with their nomenclature) this is called "BT" with an overbar.

OK. but I am not not a representative sample of euro guys.

When I look for Morse code in ARRL handbooks, I can't find the code (dead?)
but in the RSGB handbook (FYI Radio Society of Great Britain) they gave it.
There are the usual prosigns but not <BT> dahdidididah is double hyphen =

OK, GB is European, can't find a USA source right now..
Yes I can, ARRL handbook 1957: double dash dahdidididah. Nothing said there about prosign <BT>
In that epoch they sold already Vibroplex gold plated. That handbook is crammed with commercial ads.

In the US... every ham I ever knew if we had to write it down (as in club code lessons) we wrote it BT with an overbar.

Note that ARRL does use BT in their CW bulletins and code practice and qualifying runs. As a major separator, not as a punctuation mark.

Tim.
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 01:47:33 PM »

In Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosigns_for_Morse_code

they show an amateur conversation, the prosigns are barred, but the break is an equal sign in that conversation.

The conversation has the barred prosigns, but at the place where you should jot down a barred BT they put an equal sign.

Furthermore they confirm the ambiguity  dahdidididah is the code for <BT> and also for =

Hence that's in contradiction with the habits of ARRL as you describe.
That is not the first time, QST is also a not existing Q code, as far as I understand,
it is not in the formal ITU-list  http://www.kloth.net/radio/qcodes.php

Not sure about that, only a possible example.

You can notice it to be  weird, on the other hand, it is just what somebody is used to use.
Personally I am lucky with the ISO units;
no pints, cups, quarters, spoons, USgallons, AWG, SWG, liquid and solid ounces, grains, inch, foot, yards sea- and landmiles and fathoms.


Bob
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 01:57:25 PM by PA0BLAH » Logged
W5LZ
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Posts: 477




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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 06:50:24 AM »

Why is that "=" used?  Because it's convenient, and saves a little time.  Depending on who is using it, it's also because that's what they've heard used, or they aren't sure what should be used instead.  If you are writing it down, it's a way of drawing a distinction between things.  Want things to look 'right'?  So substitute what's supposed to be there instead of that "=".
 - Paul
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N2EY
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 07:27:45 AM »

QST is also a not existing Q code, as far as I understand,
it is not in the formal ITU-list  http://www.kloth.net/radio/qcodes.php

QST means "calling all radio amateurs". It dates back to at least 1915.

73 de jim, N2EY
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 08:11:10 AM »


QST means "calling all radio amateurs". It dates back to at least 1915.

73 de jim, N2EY


Sure, I know, but it is not registered in the formal ITU Q code lists, so formally it does not exist, just as QLF does not exist as a funny replacement of QSD.

Bob
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AJ8MH
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 07:49:21 AM »

Operating habits change.  I’m noticing that the current trend is to use nothing between sentences.  Some are also eliminating “de” between call-signs.  I have a problem with the latter, because it’s my clue that the DX call is about to follow, so get ready.  At 30 wpm, “de” is easy to hear.  That’s just me…
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