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Author Topic: Zoning Restrictions - Help Please  (Read 13256 times)
K7KB
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Posts: 607




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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 03:58:36 PM »

Heck, my county required me to pull building permits to erect signs on 8-foot posts. Had to submit drawings showing the height, the distance from the center line of the road, the size of the metal sign, how deep the post went into the ground, and how much concrete would be used in the hole.  Roll Eyes

And they wonder why many people, including Hams, don't even bother with trying to get a permit? The Building And Planning departments in many municipalities have made it almost impossible for the average person to do any type of construction on their own property. They are just shooting themselves in the foot because they also loose out on the revenue they could obtain if they just made the process a bit easier.

As someone who just went through 7 months of torture getting his tower permit, I should know. If I knew now what I would have to endure to get this permit, I would have just put up the tower and see if anyone complained.

John K7KB

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AB4D
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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 04:50:31 PM »

As someone who just went through 7 months of torture getting his tower permit, I should know. If I knew now what I would have to endure to get this permit, I would have just put up the tower and see if anyone complained.

Just putting up a tower without a permit is always a risky proposition.  I can sympathize with anyone attempting to navigate the red tape involved with obtaining a building permit for a tower, I did so two years ago.  It seems the hurdles get higher and higher every year.

Nevertheless, on the other side of the coin, a fellow not far from me was forced by the county where I live to remove multiple towers from his property, because they were erected without a permit.  I cringe to think about all the digging, concrete, and other hard work that went into installing those towers.  I believe I would be more upset about being forced to take down a tower after putting in all the work, than going through the frustration of applying for a permit.

73
 
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W9NM
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2011, 12:27:08 PM »

As someone who just went through 7 months of torture getting his tower permit, I should know. If I knew now what I would have to endure to get this permit, I would have just put up the tower and see if anyone complained.

Just putting up a tower without a permit is always a risky proposition.  I can sympathize with anyone attempting to navigate the red tape involved with obtaining a building permit for a tower, I did so two years ago.  It seems the hurdles get higher and higher every year.
-snip-
 I believe I would be more upset about being forced to take down a tower after putting in all the work, than going through the frustration of applying for a permit.
73
 

Well, around here, as I'm sure is the case in other locals, fines have become a major source of revenue.  Fines for just about everything have increased dramatically, including permit violations.  And then, of course, as you say, tearing out the tower and cement would really be an expense... and you're left with no antenna as all the $$$ evaporate.

Thanks for the reply,
Emil
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W9NM
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 04:51:06 PM »

Well, I tried the PRB-1 route...

I assembled a packet of PRB-1 and some supporting docs and a very humble letter to the planning board and received my reply today:

"Staff looked at the materials submitted and based upon those materials decided that a Special Use Permit will be needed for the proposed antenna tower.  Staff is willing to review any other documentation that you may have."

While this was under consideration by the planning board I emailed my alderman and asked for help.  He emailed back and said, "Call me." 

I did and got voice mail... left a message.  Three days later, no reply.

Emailed again... email again... still waiting for a reply.  It's been two weeks.

... such is life in Rockford, Illinois.
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W6RMK
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2011, 09:05:46 PM »

Sometimes, email isn't very effective.

A personal, face to face meeting can accomplish wonders.
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K0MU
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 05:40:08 AM »

Emil:
I have an idea to tell you but your email address on QRZ is bouncing.  Could you contact me via my email address listed in qrz.com?

Jay K0MU
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W9NM
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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2011, 07:51:14 AM »

Email adr is good...

We did make contact.
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W9NM
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2011, 07:53:11 AM »

Sometimes, email isn't very effective.

A personal, face to face meeting can accomplish wonders.

HuhHuhHuh?
I think I have about 4 hrs meeting time invested at city hall.

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AI8P
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 05:32:39 AM »

Realistically Zoning Boards are not usually impressed with PRB-1.   Mine wasn't.  And there is absolutely no guarantee that you would win in court.   There was a recent case in California where the guy ended up with no tower and this despite the California PRB-1 statue.   Court cases are a crap shoot.

Also, the OTARD is not a slam dunk either - are you in a "marginal reception area"?

When you apply for a Special Use Permit you basically admit that you are not entitled to the tower and you are begging for mercy - one little old lady from down the street who shows up at the hearing will deflate that balloon pretty quickly.

I am a PE, so I can't just put up a tower and hope for the best (I would lose my PE for not getting a permit).   If you do that I agree that you will become a new revenue source for the local municipality. 

I would recommend that you add an 80M wire somehow and continue using your "grandfathered" vertical for the rest.

Your mileage may vary.

Dennis
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W9NM
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 12:43:22 PM »

Dennis,
What you say is true.

I think I am going to get a lawyer to handle this.  If I wasn't retired I'd have done that up front... but now, semi-budgeting... xyl and I are not heading South this winter and will use those $$... also have to shoot a few more weddings this spring.

Called the arrl district rep last month and I have 2 weeks of emails saying that an arrl lawyer would contact me in the next 24 to 48 hrs.... still waiting... think I'm done waiting.

So, today or tomorrow I'll check in with my family atty and see what thinks.

Thanks for the reply,
Emil
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N9CC
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2012, 08:45:24 PM »

Hi Emil,
Back in 2005 I wanted to put up a 72 foot tower.The Village of Lombard, Illinois said I can only put up a m 35 foot maximum structure (Tower) acording to the Village  ordinances. So I did some research regarding towers in my area.
I found out that some years ago the Village of Cary ,Illinois was sued by a Ham Radio Operator for the same reason (He wanted to put up a Tower for his Antennas). So they went before a Federal Judge (He is a Ham Radio Operator and has an FCC licence ,that makes it a Federal case).
The Judge orderd the Village of Cary to  adjust the ordinances so the Ham Radio Operator can put up a tower and  be able to operate his Ham Radio Equipment According to the Class licence he holds .
30 days later they went before the Federal Judge again , and the Village of Cary Illinois, said that they did not think it's necesary to change the ordinances.
Guess what happen next: They lost the case and ended up paying finds for not following the Judges orders.
Now when I went to get a Permit from Lombard Il to put up my72 foot tower here is what I saidto them :
There are two ways we can do this :
1) Grant my a Permit so I can put up my72 ft  tower ,or
2) We can go before a Federal Judge and see what happens.
Now before you spend lots of tax payers $$$ on court cost Attorneys ETC... I sugest you spend 25 Cents and make a phone call to the village of Cary Illinois and ask them if they lost a similar case in Federal Court ,Ohh and by the way We will probably go before the same Federal Judge (Illinois Northern District) and I will have the same Attorney ,the Ham from Cary had.
The result : Two weeks later I got a letter from the Village of Lombard Illinois ,saying My Permit for my 72 foot tower is ready.
When you apply for this permit you have to say it's a "Non Permanent Tower" When you move they want you to take it down.
They will also ask you for a narrative on why do you have to have the tower, Just contact me ,I can provide you a copy of mine
(Permit Applied for on 07-15-2005 ,Granted on 08-05-2005)
On the Approved Permit it said:
"FCC supercedes Village Zoning Ordinances"
"He can put up the 72 foot tower."
It gets better ,When the lady cleark put the info in the computer the Inspector told her to make a note that if any neighbors call regardind the Tower to say " It's legal and there is nothing we can do "
If you do this right I think you can get it done, I did.
I am good on QRZ or just e-mail me at n9cc@n9cc.com if I can be of more help
Good luck
73 Gus N9CC

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KI4SDY
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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2012, 06:52:38 AM »

Every once in a while, the legal system works, if your willing to spend enough time, money and take the risk. Why don't you just alter your existing vertical for 80 meters with a static hat? There are plenty of antenna gurus on line here who will assist you with that if you need help. A lot cheaper, less aggravation and you probably won't notice the difference in performance. You will notice that your wallet is fatter! Wink
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:21:01 PM by KI4SDY » Logged
W9NM
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 05:30:03 AM »

N9CC,
Thanks for that very helpful reply.  I will contact you for further help, if you have the time to spare.

Thanks again,
Emil
 
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W9NM
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2012, 05:49:39 AM »

Thanks for the reply,
Yes, it appears as thought the 'legal' system will be involved.  Chances of a win have very little to do with the situation.  If you don't challenge  what you consider unjust... it will continue in perpetuity. 

I am an EE.  The BiggIR mechanical configuration is not conducive to  what you suggest.  Outside of governmental arrogance and stupidity there is no reason for not installing the Hy-Tower.  According to the Rockford Ordinances I am not allowed to modify, repair, or replace my grandfathered installation.
.........................................................................................

KI4SDY  RE: Zoning Restrictions - Help Please
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 06:52:38 AM »   
Reply with quoteQuote
Every once in a while, the legal system works, if your willing to spend enough time, money and take the risk. Why don't you just alter your existing vertical for 80 meters with a static hat? There are plenty of antenna gurus on line here who will assist you with that if you need help. A lot cheaper, less aggravation and you probably won't notice the difference in performance. You will notice that your wallet is fatter! Wink[/i][/i][/i][/b][/b][/i]
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2012, 06:06:31 AM »

Let us know how the legal fight turns out. Good luck. Your going to need it!  Smiley
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