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Author Topic: Internet/text expressions on CW?  (Read 4349 times)
KD5ZKI
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Posts: 15




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« on: November 20, 2011, 06:02:29 PM »

"LOL" "BRB" "TTYL" "L8R" "IDK" "BTW" etc..

Are these types of shortened words and phrases acceptable in code? I'm aware that there are many other ones that are frequently used, but are there limits to this? I'm a young guy and know that some of these acronyms are pretty new from the "texting/instant message" generation. Just wondering if things like this are common practice.

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VA7CPC
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Posts: 2393




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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 10:36:20 PM »

Compare the length of "LOL" and "HI" (the traditional form for a laugh) _using Morse_.   Some of the traditional Morse abbreviations are very efficient -- "ES" for "AND", etc.  But they don't use the "sound-for-spelling" technique of text messages -- L8R, GR8, etc.

One list of standard CW "short forms" is here:

http://www.ac6v.com/morseaids.htm#CW

I don't recognize many of those -- they're message-handling shorthand, used in formal traffic-handling nets.  And some common ones -- "BTU" -- don't appear.

I suppose, as the old guard (like me) dies off, and the "texting generation" takes over, new abbreviations will appear.  But they'll only catch on if they're "time-efficient" given the structure of the code.  Texting abbreviations that use "8" "9", "0" are unlikely to survive.   

If the person on the receiving end sends "BTW???", you'll know your message didn't get through.

        Charles
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PA0WV
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Posts: 137




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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2011, 06:39:48 AM »

  But they don't use the "sound-for-spelling" technique of text messages
hw abt b4 ?
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Using an appliance without CW is just CB
STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 11:53:45 AM »

First, welcome to morse, I think you will find it a really satisfying experience, especially as you gain proficiency in reading.

The abbreviations commonly used in morse have been around a long time and I don't see them changing really fast, but there is nothing wrong with change as a concept.
I think bringing internet terms to morse is fine, IF you and your correspondent both know what they mean, and that is not assured in the world of morse.
Once you use morse, you are in an international arena where many guys who don't speak english have learned over years to recognise the common morse abbreviations, and even if they communicate via internet, may even use other, native language specific, abbreviations instead of the english "texting" types.

So it facilitates communication to stick with the morse abbreviations which are commonly in use - a similar concept to phonetic codes which are designed to minimise misunderstanding.

I would suggest you monitor morse for a time and make a note of the common abbreviations used, then you can decide what would be appropriate.

But abbreviations do change - I noticed, after a long hiatus from ham radio, that morse abbreviations are essentially the same, but some new terms have popped up, such as using "op" to indicate your name is coming, instead of name. Brevity I guess.
But "name" is still used as well.

As a primarily DX operator I can say that you are much better off to stick with the common morse abbreviations, unless you know you are talking to an english speaking, internet/texting ham on the other end.

tnx qso 73 gl es dx cuagn dsw dit dit

(translation for non hams - Thanks for the conversation, best wishes, good luck and lots of long distance contacts, see you again, das wydiania (russian goodbye), cute ending ).


« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 11:57:53 AM by STAYVERTICAL » Logged
K8AG
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Posts: 352




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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 12:55:18 PM »

My XYL has been studying for her ticket for some time.  Turns out her favorite part of studying is CW (though it is no longer "needed").  We have been sharing CW abbreviations in out day to day text messages.  Its a gud way for her to lern.

73 (and 88 to the XYL)

JP, K8AG
 Cheesy
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K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2814




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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 04:55:32 PM »

First, welcome to morse, I think you will find it a really satisfying experience, especially as you gain proficiency in reading.

The abbreviations commonly used in morse have been around a long time and I don't see them changing really fast, but there is nothing wrong with change as a concept.
I think bringing internet terms to morse is fine, IF you and your correspondent both know what they mean, and that is not assured in the world of morse.
Once you use morse, you are in an international arena where many guys who don't speak english have learned over years to recognise the common morse abbreviations, and even if they communicate via internet, may even use other, native language specific, abbreviations instead of the english "texting" types.

So it facilitates communication to stick with the morse abbreviations which are commonly in use - a similar concept to phonetic codes which are designed to minimise misunderstanding.

I would suggest you monitor morse for a time and make a note of the common abbreviations used, then you can decide what would be appropriate.

But abbreviations do change - I noticed, after a long hiatus from ham radio, that morse abbreviations are essentially the same, but some new terms have popped up, such as using "op" to indicate your name is coming, instead of name. Brevity I guess.
But "name" is still used as well.

As a primarily DX operator I can say that you are much better off to stick with the common morse abbreviations, unless you know you are talking to an english speaking, internet/texting ham on the other end.

tnx qso 73 gl es dx cuagn dsw dit dit

(translation for non hams - Thanks for the conversation, best wishes, good luck and lots of long distance contacts, see you again, das wydiania (russian goodbye), cute ending ).

If you want to send "do swidanya" in Russian (Cyrillic), send:

DO SWIDANIЯ.  (The "backward R" is sent as didahdidah).  Just use the regular "English" Morse characters for the rest of it.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2011, 10:39:15 AM »


Quote

If you want to send "do swidanya" in Russian (Cyrillic), send:

DO SWIDANIЯ.  (The "backward R" is sent as didahdidah).  Just use the regular "English" Morse characters for the rest of it.

Very interesting, thanks Pat,

73s
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AE6ZW
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Posts: 100


WWW

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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 03:52:24 PM »

I see, I think some of those shortened text are used primary for cell phone text users.  I have found commonality between those text cell phone user and CW HAM.  but, some are same like YOU-> U   , but many are different, if somebody send me shortened text not commonly used for HAM CW, but used for TEXT cell phone, I probably don't get it.  I probably think I either copied wrong, and other station send it wrong.  I do not have cell phone, so I am not families with Cell Phone version of shortened text.
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N2EY
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Posts: 3895




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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2011, 01:38:08 PM »

I see, I think some of those shortened text are used primary for cell phone text users.
Yes, and they evolved for the same reasons.

Morse abbreviations are driven by what is shortest to send (LTR is shorter than LATER) while texting abbreviations are/were driven by what is shortest to enter on a phone keypad where several letters share the same key. (L8R takes fewer presses, and it takes no more time to send 8 than T).

Texting abbreviations may fade as more and more folks have cellphones with full keyboards.

btw, it really burns some teenagers' bacon when an old coot like me understands their texting on the first look. Particularly when I show them abbreviations they don't know, which are often more efficient than the ones they use.

It is particularly fun when they find out Morse ops were doing the abbreviation thing over 150 years ago - and better.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
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STAYVERTICAL
Member

Posts: 875




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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2011, 07:07:49 PM »

I see, I think some of those shortened text are used primary for cell phone text users.
Yes, and they evolved for the same reasons.

Morse abbreviations are driven by what is shortest to send (LTR is shorter than LATER) while texting abbreviations are/were driven by what is shortest to enter on a phone keypad where several letters share the same key. (L8R takes fewer presses, and it takes no more time to send 8 than T).

Texting abbreviations may fade as more and more folks have cellphones with full keyboards.

btw, it really burns some teenagers' bacon when an old coot like me understands their texting on the first look. Particularly when I show them abbreviations they don't know, which are often more efficient than the ones they use.

It is particularly fun when they find out Morse ops were doing the abbreviation thing over 150 years ago - and better.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 

And we have not even brought in the 'Q' code to speed things up!
Another example of a sending pattern which is tailored to morse is to send 'fer' in place of 'for', which has the same amount of characters but the 'e' is one dit, compared to 3 dahs for the 'o'.

All in all, morse is still kicking because it is so much fun, and appeals to the 'secret skill' gene in most people.
Abbreviations are in essence data compression algorithms implemented before computers, which in the case of morse are implemented through lookup tables in the heads of interested people.
Thus we are using the worlds most advanced data processor to send, receive, filter and compress data using the most simple encoding medium (on/off modulation) possible.
A digital mode of communication combining PCM/PPM and PWM encoding schemes.

73s
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WA8JXM
Member

Posts: 51




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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 06:40:42 AM »

Quote
But abbreviations do change - I noticed, after a long hiatus from ham radio, that morse abbreviations are essentially the same, but some new terms have popped up, such as using "op" to indicate your name is coming, instead of name. Brevity I guess.
But "name" is still used as well.

FWIW, "name" is a newcomer, "op" is what we used to use when I started (48 years ago).  On voice it was "handle". 

Ken
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N4KZ
Member

Posts: 599




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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 12:17:28 PM »

Personally, I have an iPhone but seldom text. I have worked a lot of CW for 4 decades and if I got an LOL or some other recent texting abbreviation during CW QSO, I'm not sure I would immediately get it. No harm in trying, I suppose, but a lot of old ham geezers like me might be confused and dazed for a moment or two...hi hi.

73, N4KZ
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