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Author Topic: 4th state of matter  (Read 5565 times)
N7KTX
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« on: January 05, 2012, 05:01:04 PM »

The first three being solid, liquid, and gas, with the fourth state (plama) making up about 97% of the known universe.  Its what the stars are made of.  Its important to remeber that it is not a substance of its own, but rather a state of matter.  For instance, water can be either a solid, a liquid, or a gas depending on temperature, etc.  Most materials can be brought to at least two states by common means, i.e., steel can be melted, oxygen can be liquified, etc.  However, a fourth state is available.  Actually, a fifth state has also recently been proven, that being the Bach/Einstein condensate, but its of no value in this discussion.

So, here's my concept, and thanks for staying with me through the preamble.  I believe that plasma of the right type trapped in the right container should be able to act as an antenna.  Its generally reactive to waveform energy in a big way, and I believe that its reactivity should be measurable and interpretable for use in radio communications.  Several advantages over current antenna types would occur if the concept were brought to fruition.

My question to the reader of this posting is:  What, if anything, is already known on this subject?  The types of plasma are broad and varried.  Any help to narrow the field of my experiments would be much appreciated.
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KC2ZFA
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 07:33:58 PM »

Google is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_antenna
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N7KTX
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 09:29:13 PM »

Thanks very much, Peter.  I've googled the subject, but not through Wikipedia.  Just missed it.  I noticed that the phrase "under developent" appeared more than once in the link.  I wish I had greater reources...I'd 'develop' it too.  Seems there are no good ideas left for guys like me...
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K6OK
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Posts: 62




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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 09:44:38 PM »

I believe that plasma of the right type trapped in the right container should be able to act as an antenna.

Plasma is an excellent antenna. You should hear how much RF hash my plasma TV puts out Smiley
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WS3N
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 05:56:44 AM »

Actually, a fifth state has also recently been proven, that being the Bach/Einstein condensate, but its of no value in this discussion.

Actually, it's a Bose-Einstein condensate.
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ONAIR
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Posts: 1747




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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 09:26:05 AM »

The first three being solid, liquid, and gas, with the fourth state (plama) making up about 97% of the known universe.  Its what the stars are made of.  Its important to remeber that it is not a substance of its own, but rather a state of matter.  For instance, water can be either a solid, a liquid, or a gas depending on temperature, etc.  Most materials can be brought to at least two states by common means, i.e., steel can be melted, oxygen can be liquified, etc.  However, a fourth state is available.  Actually, a fifth state has also recently been proven, that being the Bach/Einstein condensate, but its of no value in this discussion.

So, here's my concept, and thanks for staying with me through the preamble.  I believe that plasma of the right type trapped in the right container should be able to act as an antenna.  Its generally reactive to waveform energy in a big way, and I believe that its reactivity should be measurable and interpretable for use in radio communications.  Several advantages over current antenna types would occur if the concept were brought to fruition.

My question to the reader of this posting is:  What, if anything, is already known on this subject?  The types of plasma are broad and varried.  Any help to narrow the field of my experiments would be much appreciated.
  Are you referring to something akin to the theoretical particle beam antenna, where a particle beam is projected and RF energy is supposed to actually ride the beam?
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W8JI
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 04:00:08 PM »

  I believe that plasma of the right type trapped in the right container should be able to act as an antenna.  Its generally reactive to waveform energy in a big way, and I believe that its reactivity should be measurable and interpretable for use in radio communications.  Several advantages over current antenna types would occur if the concept were brought to fruition.

.....and what are these advantages, since plasma generates considerable wideband noise?

How would the "strong" broadband stochastic noise be handled?

Or is this for jamming signals?
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N8BOA
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 05:38:58 PM »

And Then There is the supper conducting antenna with a very high Q
This would be a fun one to play with especially in a very small mag-loop
Of course the capacitor would be supper conducting too.
   
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WS3N
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 05:50:10 PM »

And Then There is the supper conducting antenna with a very high Q
This would be a fun one to play with especially in a very small mag-loop
Of course the capacitor would be supper conducting too.
   

Yum!
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K6AER
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 06:38:15 PM »

What is the impedance of plasma?
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N7KTX
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 06:52:15 PM »

WS3N

Thanks for the correction.  I regreted the misnomer the minute I posted it.  I'm impressed.  Not many folks would know the difference.  Bose/Einstein condensate is correct.
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N7KTX
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 07:27:18 PM »

K6AER

Thanks for the impedance question.  I suppose the answer is in the crux of the question, that being the hugely different properties of plasma.  As mentioned, plasma isn't a substance but rather a state of existence for a wide range of substances.  Each probably has its own impedance values. That's my problem.  The categories of substances that can be included in the definition 'plasma' as a description are many.  Emphasis many.  Which will work best?  How should they be managed for communicatiuon purposes?

As an aside, I (instinctually) believe that the behaviour of plasma when used as an antenna will obviate several conventions, such as resonance and impedance.  I believe that we are looking at the interpretation of waveform energy via a new format.  We've depended on resonance since the days of Tesla, but we are now fooling around with a new media.  I'd describe it as reflection, looking into a new mirror.  I personnaly am fascinated by the possibilities.  Brought to fruition, the double-paned windows in our homes, filled with plasma, have the pontential to replace every bit of aluminum we as radio communications enthusiasts now have hanging in the air.
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N7KTX
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 07:40:13 PM »

N8BOA

Thanks for the reply.  Unfortunately, superconduction occurs at very low Kelvins.  Not practical for common use.

KF7OAE
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KQ6Q
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Posts: 991




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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 07:55:17 PM »

You may have been thinking about this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tIZUhu21sQ

possibilities for stealth antennas in HOA areas ? how about a salt-water pond,
with a fountain in the middle that can be turned on, with the pressure adjusted
for the height desired ?

KQ6Q
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N7KTX
Member

Posts: 31




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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2012, 09:18:50 PM »

KQ6Q

Thanks for the reply.  Unfortunately, this is an example of conventional RF exchange, albeit through an unconventional media.

 A while ago I scanned a page detailing the use of an oak tree as an antenna!  The author wound a balun around the base of the tree and made the whole tree work as a receiver/transmitter!  I suppose its less of a surprise when you grab the base of a rubber-duck antenna that's fixed to your handheld and experience an improvement in reception.

KF7OAE
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