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Author Topic: Can the FCC Determine How Much Power I'm Running?  (Read 12994 times)
W6RMK
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Posts: 649




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« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2012, 04:38:35 PM »

Oh, I think if you were sitting the monitoring van out front, I think you can get a pretty unambiguous measurement without worrying about propagation effects.
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VE7RF
Member

Posts: 212




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« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2012, 03:07:20 AM »

Once a signal is transmitted into freespace, about all that can be determined is the polarity it was received at, the approx. frequency it was transmitted at and the direction it came from. Super computers might be able to analyse probabilities of types of antennas used and most likely source location but these are not laser beans so they will bot be spot on. Once it hops, polarity tells you nothing although rotating polarity would indicate a satellite source which would easily be pinpointed (this is probably more in line with the homeland security mission). But to estimate transmitter power? It would be a rough estimate indeed based on probabilities of varying confidence level.

##  The fcc method  is just to triangulate the "offending"  signal... then once they know where
 he lives..the rest is simple.  Just park outside..and do a filed strength test.  then knock on the door..and tell  joe ham to tune up with a 1.5 kw cxr.    Now if the field strength reading is lower the 2nd time around.... joe ham is screwed.   If the original FS reading is say 7 db louder.. then it's simple maths.  7db = 5 x        so  5 x 1500= 7500 watts...gotcha.

##  If they have his call sign...the no need to triangulate...just look up his address in the data base.. and go over there.   He will then be forced to sell his amp to somebody else..so the problem will just shift else where.  lol

Jim  VE7RF
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AI4QJ
Member

Posts: 3




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« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2012, 09:35:48 PM »

Yes you are correct. If they have the location and a reference reading at the 1.5 K limit, then they can easily estimate the power level. But that is a lot of work. There is no way to get this information without a reference reading.


Once a signal is transmitted into freespace, about all that can be determined is the polarity it was received at, the approx. frequency it was transmitted at and the direction it came from. Super computers might be able to analyse probabilities of types of antennas used and most likely source location but these are not laser beans so they will bot be spot on. Once it hops, polarity tells you nothing although rotating polarity would indicate a satellite source which would easily be pinpointed (this is probably more in line with the homeland security mission). But to estimate transmitter power? It would be a rough estimate indeed based on probabilities of varying confidence level.

##  The fcc method  is just to triangulate the "offending"  signal... then once they know where
 he lives..the rest is simple.  Just park outside..and do a filed strength test.  then knock on the door..and tell  joe ham to tune up with a 1.5 kw cxr.    Now if the field strength reading is lower the 2nd time around.... joe ham is screwed.   If the original FS reading is say 7 db louder.. then it's simple maths.  7db = 5 x        so  5 x 1500= 7500 watts...gotcha.

##  If they have his call sign...the no need to triangulate...just look up his address in the data base.. and go over there.   He will then be forced to sell his amp to somebody else..so the problem will just shift else where.  lol

Jim  VE7RF
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WX4O
Member

Posts: 99




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« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2012, 04:14:48 PM »

When I was in the Army Security Agency, one of the main things I did was called 'RFP' or Radio Finger Printing. We identified transmitters sending CW routinely using a special recording technique. This was in 1964-1967.
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N2EY
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Posts: 3860




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« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2012, 06:13:19 AM »

It should be remembered that FCC can come to your station at any time you are operating and perform tests and measurements. They don't need a reason nor a search warrant.

They can do this because, when you applied for your license, you agreed to it as a condition of the license grant. IOW you gave them permission ahead of time.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
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VE7RF
Member

Posts: 212




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« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2012, 08:01:36 AM »

It should be remembered that FCC can come to your station at any time you are operating and perform tests and measurements. They don't need a reason nor a search warrant.

They can do this because, when you applied for your license, you agreed to it as a condition of the license grant. IOW you gave them permission ahead of time.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 

##  Interesting.  Here in canada, the RI needs a court order, signed by a judge, that specifies the use of force by a peace officer. And even then you are not obligated to open the door.  And it has to be "exigent circumstances" ...like you are interfering with an aircraft beacon, or you have a spur on vhf etc.

later
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KA5ROW
Member

Posts: 500


WWW

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« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2012, 07:56:58 PM »

I don’t think they would care as long as there was no interference. From 2 to maybe as much as 2.5 kw, but 5 to 8 kw might just raise a red flag.  So I would say you would be safe a 2 kw.
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KK4AXX
Member

Posts: 119


WWW

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« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2012, 03:22:41 PM »

Quote
determine to an amazing degree of accuracy what type of antenna is in use and the gain

In the case of my so-called "station,"  that could be embarrassing... on the downside.

If they ever run my stats they will send me an amp out of pity...  Embarrassed
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