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Author Topic: Amateur radio is only for rich people  (Read 20998 times)
AD4U
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Posts: 2167




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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2012, 12:10:38 PM »

It can also be argued that fishing is a rich man's hobby.  After all a "real fisherman" must have:

$30,000 bass boat with 200HP outboard motor
$10,000 for all the latest fish finding electronics installed on the boat
$50,000 for a 4WD truck to pull the boat
$1000 a year in gas to run the boat
$5000 in rods, reels, lures and artificial bait

OR

$5 for a cane pole, some fishing line, a hook and a cork
$1 for a can of worms

Either "set up" will catch lots of fish.

It is all relative..........If I wanted to "HAM" on a budget I could spend:

$350 for a Kenwood TS 520S (or similar rig)
$50 for wire and coax and connectors and insulators and rope to MAKE my antennas

Just like a cane pole and some worms are capable of catching lots of fish, this modest "station" is capable of world-wide communications.  The ultimate success of either lies in the skill of the operator (fisherman) not in the equipment he / she uses.

Dick  AD4U



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ONAIR
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Posts: 1744




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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2012, 02:48:34 PM »

Hmmm... What business is it of anyone how much money I or anyone makes. Before the Academic Communists indoctrinated their students here in the US, it was rude to be overly concerned about another person's private property - especially money.
    Just nosey people.  Nowadays, they are trying to find out if you are in the 1%!
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ONAIR
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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2012, 03:13:04 PM »

Communism is based on the notion that the working class, who collectively constitute the main producer of wealth in society, and who are perpetually exploited and marginalised by the wealthy class, should change the capitalist system by eliminating most private property and by holding practically all wealth in common.    (paraphrasing, perhaps poorly, some info from from Wikipedia)

Getting a good explanation of Communism from a Capitalist is almost as hard as getting a good explanation of Buddhism from a Christian.  I am neither a Communist nor a Capitalist so take my above synopsis with a grain of salt.  It would be nice if we could discuss the merits and drawbacks of both Communism and Capitalism without demonizing either, but I haven't seen much evidence that it can be done  Smiley

Communists don't like it when Capitalists point out that freeloaders would be rewarded as much as hard-workers. Capitalists don't like any discussion of Communism that does not demonize it.  However, since very wealthy Capitalists control both political parties in America it is very unlikely that Communism could ever get any traction here.  That said, scaring the public about socialism is about as good a method as warmongering and flag-waiving are when it comes to self-serving politicians trying to attract our votes.




Maybe you would prefer to live in North Korea?
   No way, but I wouldn't mind getting a nice QSL card from there!  Smiley
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K9AIM
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Posts: 1048




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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2012, 03:34:37 PM »

Maybe you would prefer to live in North Korea?

no, i don't like dictatorships (but the pile-ups might be fun ... for a while). 

While democratic communism has yet to be tried, I am not sure free market capitalism has truly been tried either. Corporations leverage the government to increase their profitability at taxpayer expense.  On this side of the pond, corporations practically own the legislature and it is more 'of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation' than it is 'of the people, by the people, and for the people.'   Great Britain cannot be much better (if at all).  A place like North Korea with its brand of communism is worse, but that does not mean communism has no advantages. 

Our National Park system here in the US is a great example of common wealth shared by all. Is there anything inherently wrong or undesirable about that?

Back to the topic at hand -- ham radio is not only for rich people.  Having a lot of money to spend obviously opens up a lot more possibilities, but one can have a nice station at a modest price.

 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 06:11:45 PM by K9AIM » Logged
K9AIM
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Posts: 1048




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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2012, 06:17:31 PM »

It can also be argued that fishing is a rich man's hobby.  After all a "real fisherman" must have:

$30,000 bass boat with 200HP outboard motor
$10,000 for all the latest fish finding electronics installed on the boat
$50,000 for a 4WD truck to pull the boat
$1000 a year in gas to run the boat
$5000 in rods, reels, lures and artificial bait

OR

$5 for a cane pole, some fishing line, a hook and a cork
$1 for a can of worms

Either "set up" will catch lots of fish.

It is all relative..........If I wanted to "HAM" on a budget I could spend:

$350 for a Kenwood TS 520S (or similar rig)
$50 for wire and coax and connectors and insulators and rope to MAKE my antennas

Just like a cane pole and some worms are capable of catching lots of fish, this modest "station" is capable of world-wide communications.  The ultimate success of either lies in the skill of the operator (fisherman) not in the equipment he / she uses.

Dick  AD4U


well played.  the low budget fisherman or low budget ham might even have just as much fun  Smiley
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STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 873




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« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2012, 10:13:28 PM »

Perhaps its a throwback to nomadic ancestors, but I have no interest in using a "big gun" station to make contacts.
I like the challenge of using a simple 100w (5w sometimes) rig with wire antennas to make my contacts.
No amp, just a basic FT897D, a roll of wire and I am happiest.

I went through the beam/amp phase, and sure it was much easier to get contacts, but somehow, for me it was not fulfilling.
Now I carry my entire ham station in a laptop bag and think about (and build) new wire antennas as the mood strikes.
Sometimes they are duds, sometimes great, but always fun and educational.

This is not to be critical of contest ops or big gun stations, they are what make their operators happy, and that is good.
It would be interesting to have a personality quiz online and at the end of it describe what type of ham operation to which one is suited.
But for me, my most memorable and satisfying contacts were those made against the odds.
I remember cheering on a 5w qrp operator who was trying to make a contact across the globe on psk31, and when he finally got his callsign and name across I felt as excited as I am sure he was.

It does not need a lot of money to be a ham, I have worked guys using boat anchors, and the RF sounded the same as an expensive contesting rig, it just needs curiosity about this strange thing called radio, which allows us to communicate in a way that would have been denounced as magic and sorcery not that long ago.

One of the things that modern society has lost is the wonder of the things we do today that were inconceivable only 150 years ago.
How many of us have seen people yawn and read a newspaper as an aircraft takes off - forgetting that they are flying through the air in a big metal cylinder at terrific speeds!

We have all heard of rulers in times gone by who have counted the number of days they were happy and it came to seven or so days in their entire life, despite all the luxuries and money in their kingdom.
I count my days of happiness in tens of thousands, because ham radio and family is all the riches I need.

73s
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EI4GMB
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Posts: 166




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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2012, 04:02:11 AM »

Actually I have a SW QSL from Voice of Korea. One of my treasured possessions! Grin
I think once you have everything you can have as an amateur station the challenge goes out of the hobby. It's the journey from humble beginnings that makes this hobby so rewarding and enjoyable! Wink

Kind Regards

Fred EI4GMB

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'You can never plan the future by the past'

'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
N2EY
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Posts: 3880




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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2012, 04:43:57 PM »

"The only thing wrong with Communism is that the US has interfered and never let it be fully tried!"

Read the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. Karl Marx suggests that 20% of the citizenry needs to be killed off because they resist Communism. Great! Any system of government that sees the killing of a segment of its population is deserving of the ash bin of history.

That's like saying Christianity should go into the ash bin of history because of the Inquisition or Jonestown.

And remember that it was the capitalist USA that permitted some people to own other people as property for almost 100 years. For some folks, that ownership was their single biggest asset. Does that mean capitalism is no good? Or just that some implementations of it are no good.

Capitalism is simply the free market. Stop government meddling.

Capitalism is a lot more than "the free market". It has some very good features and some not-so-good features.

Capitalism is the idea that the folks with money (capital) loan/invest it, and are paid for the use of the money. The owners of a means of production are usually not those who work and make the product.

Communism is the idea that the means of production are owned communally by the workers who produce the product. Any partnership business is a form of communism. So is a marriage in a community-property state.

Imagine a country in which the workers at all or most of the various companies, large and small, are also the owners, and the products are sold on the "free" market. Such a country would have "free market communism".

OTOH, imagine a country with capitalism in which the market for various products is controlled/dominated by a single monopolistic company or group. That would be capitalism without the free market.

Consider this quote:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed."

Sounds like something a Marxist would say, right?

Guess who actually said it.

As for "government meddling", what parts would you cut out?

For example, should roads, bridges, tunnels and other transportation facilities be left solely to the free market? How about education, weather forecasting, safety regulations, banking regulations, etc.? Municipal utilities and similar programs?

73 de Jim, N2EY
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 04:54:16 PM by N2EY » Logged
WB2WIK
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Posts: 20603




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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2012, 08:24:11 PM »

Amateur radio is for rich people like deep sea fishing, skiing, motorcross and everything else is for rich people.

Driving is for rich people, since if you can't buy a car, it's very difficult to do.

I still use (sometimes) my homebrew rigs from 1966 during SKN or some AM activity.  That's a 4-250 modulated by PP 811As and it cost me $145 to build, in total.  It can be use with any kind of receiver, but when I was a kid, I use an NC-125 which was quite a bit older than I am and they can be found for about $75 today.

I made several thousand contacts with that, and still make them for AM work.  So I guess if $220 is for rich people, then the statement is absolutely true.
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STAYVERTICAL
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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2012, 10:32:00 PM »

When looked at dispassionately, capitalism, communism or other 'isms are really high level abstractions.
At the fundamental level, governments are created from warlord type of activity in the first instance.
If you look at China for example, the emperor came from the clan which eventually won the war of the competing warlords.
Similarly in Japan, the leaders were the winning clan.
In Europe, the local warlords developed in the same way from roving bands of brigands who settled down in a type of "protection" racket.
The brigands would protect the local farmers from other brigands, while the farmers fed them and provided them with "taxes".
Eventually, these bands of sedentary brigands styled themselves into "lords, nobles, local kings" and other grandiose titles.
They of course relentlessly fought each other absorbing defeated brigands villages into their own kingdom, until one was victorious and became the overall "king".

If you look at the current state of nations, not that much has changed, except that some countries have kings, some presidents, some prime ministers, but in the end, the same state of affairs applies.

Communist countries still had their overlords who enjoyed a higher standard of living than the people they purported to represent, but unlike democratic countries, you could not vote them out.

The biggest difference between communism and capitalism is shown by the former USSR's food production, whereby the amount of food produced by peoples small backyard gardens was typically as much as that produced by collective farms where the workers had no incentive for personal gain.
Communism is simply making a nation one huge plantation where the serf's have no personal rights, a form of slavery which is dressed in moral superiority, but which is in reality enslavement of the person, soul and body.

73s

 
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N2EY
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« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2012, 03:44:31 AM »

The biggest difference between communism and capitalism is shown by the former USSR's food production, whereby the amount of food produced by peoples small backyard gardens was typically as much as that produced by collective farms where the workers had no incentive for personal gain.

If only it were that simple.....

What happened in the Soviet Union was more complex than that.

First, although they used the word, the USSR wasn't "communist" in the economic sense. They were socialist - the government owned the means of production. (USSR means Union of Soviet Socialist Republics).

Second, they were one huge bureaucracy that often messed up. They'd make tractors but no spare parts, so when a tractor broke down the crops would rot in the fields. Centralized management meant doing anything required massive numbers of approvals at all levels.

Third, the Soviet Union was nearly wiped out during WW2, and had to rebuild without outside help. Worse, they chose to spend enormous amounts of resources on military and space projects, while their basic industries struggled. They also got tangled in foreign wars that drained resources without any real benefit.

 
  one huge plantation where the serf's have no personal rights, a form of slavery which is dressed in moral superiority, but which is in reality enslavement of the person, soul and body. 

Think about what's happening in the USA these past 30 years or so....

73 de Jim, N2EY
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MAGNUM257
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« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2012, 07:20:32 AM »

What a stupid thread.
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EI4GMB
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Posts: 166




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« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2012, 07:35:32 AM »

It's easy from a position of relative comfort in a democratic society to extol the virtues of communism. I'm sure the people who live under these systems have an entirely different view. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Whether or not communism has been fully realized, the truth is, that it has failed in all its forms. Capitalism has outlasted it and has pushed civilization forward for the past 100 years.  We can argue about the fallibility of all man-made systems, including Capitalism, which too may have its day, but for the time being although imperfect, Capitalism is all we've got. I would prefer to make do with it than to set civilization back a 100 years! Wink

73,

Fred EI4GMB
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 07:38:18 AM by EI4GMB » Logged

'You can never plan the future by the past'

'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
N2EY
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« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2012, 10:18:33 AM »

Whether or not communism has been fully realized, the truth is, that it has failed in all its forms.

What about China?
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EI4GMB
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« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2012, 10:51:06 AM »

Communism hasn't worked in China that is why a free market economy was introduced there.
A free market economy brings with it a desire for freedom and democracy.
It is this desire, common amongst all the world's peoples, that will lead to the eventual downfall of the communist system in China.

73,

Fred EI4GMB
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 01:25:55 PM by EI4GMB » Logged

'You can never plan the future by the past'

'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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