Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tech HF privileges  (Read 14406 times)
W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2528




Ignore
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2012, 08:16:51 PM »

"The best approach IMHO is to offer a good assortment of bands and modes - CW, phone, digital, HF, VHF, UHF. But not all bands nor all modes. A sampling, IOW, which will appeal to a broad range of interests yet give adequate incentive to upgrade.

That would be an excellent way for novice ops to sample the wide range of opportunities we have.

My view is that Techs do not get the protection, freedom from harassment, I had while I was a Novice.  Also, my guess is that they do not have the FUN I had as a Novice.  Fortunately, when I got my ticket 15 was open many times during the day and 10 meters some times during the day.

Most on my operating was on 80 and 40 and sometimes on 15.  I used 10 meters to chat with local Novice ops.

For me, getting on the air was pretty simple, one rig, an entry level one, a key, a watt-SWR meter, coax, coax switch box, and inverted Vee for 80/40 that loaded on 15 and a CB vertical antenna.

All of my attention was focused on HF.

The way I see it, now entry tickets have to look for rigs that cover where they have operating privileges.  Those entry privileges are focused on VHF/UHF.  If one upgrades then they have to focus on areas where their current station does not operate,  As a result, they have to have more $$$$ to set up what amounts to a totally new station.

I'm guessing I started on a rather clear, less expensive, path of gaining more privileges for the station I already had.

But, without a concrete proposal to the FCC, this is all moot.

73
Bob
Logged
W0DV
Member

Posts: 200




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2012, 11:31:01 PM »

N2EY:  You have reinforced my point. I don't care if it was 1960 or yesterday..the test for becoming a ham has always been easy.  No education (formal) is required.  It's just a hobby, always has been, always will be. . When some goof makes a statement such as "a third grader can pass the General test"..it is not meant to be in the best spirit of ham radio. Rather, it  is meant as an insult, a slur as I stated before. It is just not an intelligent, thoughtful remark.  But can a 3rd grader pass the exam? well sure...lol, a 3rd grader can conduct the Phil harmonic also, but it doesn't happen often.  If you wish to play games with context, take it elsewhere because I think that most reasonable people can see right through the game.

 A great example of the stupidity that exists in Ham Radio is my father in law. He became a general class back in the 70's. He is very proficient with the code. He learned it while in the airforce, and was a communications guy while he served in Korea. No problem for him to key at 40 wpm. He is very good with the code..to his credit, as well as serving in the air force..hats off.  Where the stupidity comes in is when he dumped ham radio when the code was dropped. He has the attitude that he is better than any no-code ham wannabe..so he quit the hobby.  He knows nothing of electronics, couldn't identify a resistor from a capacitor. No knowledge of Ohms law, no ability to troubleshoot the most basic circuit. Yet, he managed to get a General Ticket when the test was supposed to be hard. lol.
This is precisely the same attitude I see when someone makes a silly remark as "A 3rd grader can pass the General Class test "  It's intent was to antagonize, and reeked of discontent, and disgruntlement. If you are unhappy with the hobby, get out..because most of the ham radio community does not wish to read it, hear it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 11:46:30 PM by W0DV » Logged
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2765




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2012, 11:04:47 AM »

If you can't refute the truth of the statement, resort to ad hominem attacks.  BravO, DV. Roll Eyes
Logged

73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
N5RWJ
Member

Posts: 461




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2012, 12:32:10 PM »

After reading all of the above topics. I wonder what new license types and allocation's be should look at, and what is to be grandfather into them ? I would think  Basic, Tech, Gen/advance and Extra? But what should the allocations be, and what should new testing cover. Note: What if the Gen/Extra are combined ?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 01:30:11 PM by N5RWJ » Logged
KE4YOG
Member

Posts: 182




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2012, 12:57:12 PM »

I am looking at a second grader that might be able to pass tech if not general. Next year I think she could pass general. I will admit that right now studying for my Extra is kicking my but to a degreee. I have really just started in Jan. I am using Hamtestonline. It works wonderfully. I will say that it will end up taking me 15 hours of study to pass. I will pass General and Extra in less time it normally takes to pass Extra. I am good at somethings and not so good at others. I am was licensed for 16 years before upgrading. I was inactive for about 10 years due to family stuff. There is so many facets to this hobby that a person can specialize in the part they like the best.
Logged
W0DV
Member

Posts: 200




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2012, 03:32:28 PM »

If you can't refute the truth of the statement, resort to ad hominem attacks.  BravO, DV. Roll Eyes

Well gee, I know a 5 year old that can pass the extra exam...golly, look at all of the dummies that had to study for months, or years to pass the Extra Exam? I didn't study at all...I just showed up for the Extra Exam only because I was bored, got 100%...gee golly, lol

Hey I know...The FCC should make the all of the exams more difficult so only a few of us (like me) can pass it. No more of this second and third grader stuff. LOL
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 03:43:50 PM by W0DV » Logged
W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2528




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2012, 03:49:43 PM »

Getting your General ticket, and then upgrading to Extra seems to work OK.

You can read some of the posts questioning if the Tech ticket works well for novice ops.

73
Bob
Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3849




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2012, 09:27:57 AM »

I don't care if it was 1960 or yesterday..the test for becoming a ham has always been easy.  No education (formal) is required.

I agree that no formal education in radio has ever been needed for any US amateur exams. That is proven by the high number of hams from all walks of life who have earned licenses over the past 100 years.

But whether or not the license tests are/were "easy" depends on the person. For me, they always seemed "easy" - but that's just my experience. Others have had very different experiences.

Could YOU pass the 1960 exams for the license class you hold today? I know I could.

It's just a hobby, always has been, always will be.

No, it isn't. Ham radio is a lot more than "just a hobby".

Tell the folks who donate many hours and dollars of their own to public service comms that "it's a hobby" and see the reaction. Read Part 97 - the word "hobby" does not appear even once.

And even if we were to agree that ham radio is "a hobby", that doesn't mean anything goes, or that there should be no standards, no requirements, no rules.

When some goof makes a statement such as "a third grader can pass the General test"..it is not meant to be in the best spirit of ham radio. Rather, it  is meant as an insult, a slur as I stated before. It is just not an intelligent, thoughtful remark.

There is a big difference between saying "a third grader can pass the exam" and "some third graders have passed the exams". The first is an opinion, the second is a fact.

But can a 3rd grader pass the exam? well sure...lol, a 3rd grader can conduct the Phil harmonic also, but it doesn't happen often.  If you wish to play games with context, take it elsewhere because I think that most reasonable people can see right through the game.

It is not about context, it is about facts and exact statements. I do not say "a third grader can pass the exam", but I do say "some third graders have passed the exams".  Sure, the third graders in question are/were bright kids who got a lot of help, but the fact is that they did pass the exams.

How is "some third graders have passed the exams" an insult?

A great example of the stupidity that exists in Ham Radio is my father in law. He became a general class back in the 70's. He is very proficient with the code. He learned it while in the airforce, and was a communications guy while he served in Korea. No problem for him to key at 40 wpm. He is very good with the code..to his credit, as well as serving in the air force..hats off.  Where the stupidity comes in is when he dumped ham radio when the code was dropped.

But the code wasn't "dropped". The code TEST was eliminated, but all US hams are allowed to use Morse Code on the air. And many do. In fact, there seems to be an increase in Morse Code activity and interest over the past several years.

He has the attitude that he is better than any no-code ham wannabe..so he quit the hobby.

That's called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". He's missing out on a lot of fun, some great new CW rigs, and much more.

  He knows nothing of electronics, couldn't identify a resistor from a capacitor. No knowledge of Ohms law, no ability to troubleshoot the most basic circuit. Yet, he managed to get a General Ticket when the test was supposed to be hard. lol.

Are you SURE he has "no knowledge" of those subjects?

Even if he doesn't, consider this: He met the license requirements in effect at the time, and has managed to not give FCC any reason to revoke, suspend or not renew his license. Isn't that what really matters, regardless of what tests someone took, or what age they were when they did?

This is precisely the same attitude I see when someone makes a silly remark as "A 3rd grader can pass the General Class test "  It's intent was to antagonize, and reeked of discontent, and disgruntlement.


I don't see that at all. Why should anyone be insulted?

You said yourself that "the test for becoming a ham has always been easy.  No education (formal) is required." If that is really true, why shouldn't a bright third grader interested in radio be able to pass the tests?

If someone - of any age - worked really hard to earn their license, wouldn't they be insulted by your claim that "the test for becoming a ham has always been easy"? Particularly if they passed tests you didn't - or couldn't?

If you are unhappy with the hobby, get out..because most of the ham radio community does not wish to read it, hear it.

So it's your way or the highway?

What about staying and trying to make ham radio better? Seems to me that's the best approach.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Logged
N5RWJ
Member

Posts: 461




Ignore
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2012, 01:57:55 PM »

After reading all of the above topics. I wonder what new license types and allocation's be should look at, and what is to be grandfather into them ? I would think  Basic, Tech, Gen/advance and Extra? But what should the allocations be, and what should new testing cover. Note: What if the Gen/Extra are combined ?
The topic Is "TECH HF PRIVILEGES." Some of the post here seems to come from Ham's that haven't Read through all the above posts, The tactician license is now the gate way to Ham Radio. At one time it was thought all New Hams must learn CW.We are now in the 21 century and CW ,isn't so important for these new hams, but phone privileges are, and unless some are granted ,they we continue to the route of VHF and then out.
Logged
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2765




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2012, 06:20:04 PM »

"Tactician"?  When did that license come about?

As far as Technicians having HF privileges - they have them.  They also have the freedom to upgrade their license.  If they're not motivated to study for the General test, that's their problem.
Logged

73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
W0DV
Member

Posts: 200




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2012, 08:11:55 PM »


Could YOU pass the 1960 exams for the license class you hold today? I know I could.

I already answered that Smiley

It's just a hobby, always has been, always will be.

No, it isn't. Ham radio is a lot more than "just a hobby".

Tell the folks who donate many hours and dollars of their own to public service comms that "it's a hobby" and see the reaction. Read Part 97 - the word "hobby" does not appear even once.

And even if we were to agree that ham radio is "a hobby", that doesn't mean anything goes, or that there should be no standards, no requirements, no rules.

Who said there shouldn't be standards, requirements or rules? I agree there should be.

When some goof makes a statement such as "a third grader can pass the General test"..it is not meant to be in the best spirit of ham radio. Rather, it  is meant as an insult, a slur as I stated before. It is just not an intelligent, thoughtful remark.

There is a big difference between saying "a third grader can pass the exam" and "some third graders have passed the exams". The first is an opinion, the second is a fact.
LOL.. I agree. I have already pointed that out. Hence the analogy I made. I was repeating what W4KVW said in his post

But can a 3rd grader pass the exam? well sure...lol, a 3rd grader can conduct the Phil harmonic also, but it doesn't happen often.  If you wish to play games with context, take it elsewhere because I think that most reasonable people can see right through the game.

It is not about context, it is about facts and exact statements. I do not say "a third grader can pass the exam", but I do say "some third graders have passed the exams".  Sure, the third graders in question are/were bright kids who got a lot of help, but the fact is that they did pass the exams.

How is "some third graders have passed the exams" an insult?


I merely pointed out the motives for someone making a silly statement such as "a third grader can pass the exam". He (W4KVW), did not say "some third graders". I suspect you are having difficulty in keeping track of what was said, who said it, and it what CONTEXT. Context is vital in any conversation, or written word. Perhaps you need a lesson in English. Languages can not be translated without CONTEXT. The same rule applies here. When someone makes a statement, or reference to another statement or "fact", the true meaning cannot be determined unless an effort is made to place the statement in context. That is the job of our brain, our reading comprehension skills.


But the code wasn't "dropped". The code TEST was eliminated, but all US hams are allowed to use Morse Code on the air. And many do. In fact, there seems to be an increase in Morse Code activity and interest over the past several years.
Oh, you didn't understand what I meant? I said the code was dropped, meaning that the requirement to take a code test was "dropped" what the heck did you think I meant? LOL




You said yourself that "the test for becoming a ham has always been easy.  No education (formal) is required." If that is really true, why shouldn't a bright third grader interested in radio be able to pass the tests?

Again, in context. I was making a response to the silly 3rd grader comment that was made by W4KVW. Please review.

If someone - of any age - worked really hard to earn their license, wouldn't they be insulted by your claim that "the test for becoming a ham has always been easy"? Particularly if they passed tests you didn't - or couldn't?

Yes, and they would be insulted by the "third grader" comment...that is the POINT I was trying to make...you are just reading what you want to read and dismissing everything else. Either that or you have a reading comprehension disability.


What about staying and trying to make ham radio better? Seems to me that's the best approach.

73 de Jim, N2EY


I agree !
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:30:06 PM by W0DV » Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3849




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2012, 01:40:30 AM »

After reading all of the above topics. I wonder what new license types and allocation's be should look at, and what is to be grandfather into them ? I would think  Basic, Tech, Gen/advance and Extra? But what should the allocations be, and what should new testing cover. Note: What if the Gen/Extra are combined ?

I started a new thread for that discussion.

However: FCC has repeatedly refused to do things such as automatic no-test upgrades and adding license classes. So proposals which include such things won't go far.

73 de jim, N2EY
Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3849




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2012, 02:48:24 AM »


Could YOU pass the 1960 exams for the license class you hold today? I know I could.

I already answered that Smiley


You made some statements about your electronics knowledge. But you did not answer the question.

But the 1960 Extra required more than a theory test. It required 20 wpm code, sending and receiving. One minute solid legible copy out of five, plus all they gave you to send with was a straight key.

Could you pass ALL the tests for a 1960 Extra?

73 de Jim, N2EY
Logged
W0DV
Member

Posts: 200




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2012, 04:48:50 PM »


Could YOU pass the 1960 exams for the license class you hold today? I know I could.

I already answered that Smiley


You made some statements about your electronics knowledge. But you did not answer the question.

But the 1960 Extra required more than a theory test. It required 20 wpm code, sending and receiving. One minute solid legible copy out of five, plus all they gave you to send with was a straight key.

Could you pass ALL the tests for a 1960 Extra?

73 de Jim, N2EY


I could pass any written exam that was ever administered, at any time. A 20 WPM code test? no, at this time I cannot pass a 20 wpm code test.  I do not use a key, nor do I own one..  You and I both know that the test that was being referred to were the written exams, even though it wasn't specifically stated.  

I took my first written exam in 1994 after a friend introduced me to ham radio, It looked like a rewarding pastime, so I became a ham. A few years later, I became aware that the code was going to be dropped. I thought I should take a code exam before that happened. I wanted to at least experience some part of that. I took the 5 wpm exam and passed. The VE that was giving me the exam told me I was wasting my time because the code wasn't going to be required anymore in just a few weeks. It didn't matter to me, I wanted to take the test.

I answered your question honestly, I can't pass the 20 wpm test at this time. However, nothing would have stopped me from getting a license even if the requirement were still 20 wpm. I just would have studied the code till I got it, period. The code isn't some abstract ability or complicated language. It just takes effort to be proficient.
People from all walks of life, and occupation have learned the code,  before ham radio came into existence.
I do have an interest in learning the code.

W0DV
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 05:04:32 PM by W0DV » Logged
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3849




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2012, 05:16:29 PM »


Could YOU pass the 1960 exams for the license class you hold today? I know I could.

I already answered that Smiley


You made some statements about your electronics knowledge. But you did not answer the question.

But the 1960 Extra required more than a theory test. It required 20 wpm code, sending and receiving. One minute solid legible copy out of five, plus all they gave you to send with was a straight key.

Could you pass ALL the tests for a 1960 Extra?

73 de Jim, N2EY


I could pass any written exam that was ever administered, at any time.

Even a written test from the 1920s? With questions about mercury arc rectifiers and such?

A 20 WPM code test? no, at this time I cannot pass a 20 wpm code test.  I do not use a key, nor do I own one..  You and I both know that the test that was being referred to were the written exams, even though it wasn't specifically stated.


No, I do not know that at all.

The question I asked was: 

"Could YOU pass the 1960 exams for the license class you hold today?"

Nothing about only the written exams. The Extra of those days required at least two written exams (General and Extra) and at least 4 code exams (13 wpm receive, 13 wpm send, 20 wpm receive, 20 wpm send).

If you couldn't pass all six, the answer to my question is NO.

I took my first written exam in 1994 after a friend introduced me to ham radio, It looked like a rewarding pastime, so I became a ham. A few years later, I became aware that the code was going to be dropped. I thought I should take a code exam before that happened. I wanted to at least experience some part of that. I took the 5 wpm exam and passed. The VE that was giving me the exam told me I was wasting my time because the code wasn't going to be required anymore in just a few weeks. It didn't matter to me, I wanted to take the test.

I answered your question honestly, I can't pass the 20 wpm test at this time. However, nothing would have stopped me from getting a license even if the requirement were still 20 wpm. I just would have studied the code till I got it, period. The code isn't some abstract ability or complicated language. It just takes effort to be proficient.
People from all walks of life, and occupation have learned the code,  before ham radio came into existence.

Exactly!


Being we are on the subject, I have been thinking for the past year or so of getting into the CW mode.  Your recommendation for a key for a beginner would be appreciated.

I recommend starting with a straight key. The Nye Viking Speed-X is a good one, as are the WW2 surplus J-37 and J-38, if you can get one cheap. Avoid really fancy or really inexpensively-made straight keys.

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPEED-X-Telegraph-Key-/160743747479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256d12ef97


(NOTE: Used for illustration only; I don't know the seller and can make no recommendation one way or the other).
73 de jim, N2EY
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!