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Author Topic: What do you do when SSB in CW portion?  (Read 3860 times)
KB4MB
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Posts: 295




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« on: February 17, 2012, 08:00:52 AM »

I am still banging away at my speed, somewhere near 10-12wpm, but certainly further to go.

7.050-7.070 is normally used for this speed, as well as 7.100-7.125... however, it seems that other countries (not US) are using this area for their phone operations, as is allowed.

I have been operating along merrily around 7.108 and have gotten stepped on by some digital stuff just keying up out of nowhere (Pactor?)...  after a couple of nights of this I guess this is a bad area to operate.  Just below this is more voice, and just above is the SKCC/FISTS slower code area and I want to make sure those guys have room for the even slower code guys to practice.  Sometimes the rest of the area is busy in the old Novice section, so I slide down to 7.050 and that area is now filled with SSB, and as I get higher, I am starting to hear the digital guys as they dip down to avoid SSB where they normally operate.

So, having said that - what do the rest of you do?  Do you just operate on top of them, call it a night, squeeze closer to other stations?

Just wondering - right now, I just QSY and do the best I can - but sometimes that is getting harder and harder - so I drop to 80m - but slower code is harder to scare up there (it is still there, just not as plentiful)....
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 08:46:23 AM »

Unless the SSB signal is much stronger than the CW signal I'm listening to, I just use a narrower filter and ignore the SSB signal, since in a 150 Hz bandwidth the SSB signal just about disappears anyway.

I've never found a (non-contest) time when 40m CW is so crowded I can't find many places to operate at whatever speed I wish.  During the occasional CW contest weekend, of course it gets very jammed up, but even that is mostly dusk to dawn when all the DX can be worked -- except for ARRL SS CW and Field Day, which are domestic contests and 40m gets used around the clock.

I see a lot of guys using pretty slow code just below W1AW's code practice/bulletin frequency of 7047.5.

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K4YZ
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 09:30:04 PM »


So, having said that - what do the rest of you do?  Do you just operate on top of them, call it a night, squeeze closer to other stations?

Just wondering - right now, I just QSY and do the best I can - but sometimes that is getting harder and harder - so I drop to 80m - but slower code is harder to scare up there (it is still there, just not as plentiful)....

Assuming you're talking about legitimate foreign stations (as opposed to bootleggers/out-of-banders) or KL/KP/KH stations that are allowed to operate below 7125kHz, operating "on top of them" is a bust of Part 97!  They're allowed to be there too, you know!

Come on up to 30 meters!  I for one welcome new or returning CW ops and will gladly answer QRS CQs. Also, if anyone hears me calling CQ, feel free to answer me at the speed you feel comfortable at, and I'll QRS.

Thirty meters is the jewel in the crown for CW ops of all speeds, in my not so humble opinion!

73

Steve, K4YZ
Winchester, TN
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KB4MB
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Posts: 295




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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 07:56:08 AM »

Right, so do I crank down and operate over as Steve suggests (which I could do), or is that interfering with other legit stations (which I believe it is) and move as I have been doing?

So far, I have just maneuvered the best I can...  I can't wait for me to get my narrow filter - right now I just have a SCAF filter which is great, but if someone comes up next to me strong, the other guy drops in volume by a bit.  I can recover some with the RF gain to stop the AGC action, but this only works so-so...

Now, as for SW stations on 40, those I just operate over Smiley
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N3QE
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 12:29:05 PM »

Assuming you're talking about legitimate foreign stations (as opposed to bootleggers/out-of-banders) or KL/KP/KH stations that are allowed to operate below 7125kHz, operating "on top of them" is a bust of Part 97!  They're allowed to be there too, you know!


When I was a young ham, 40M - especially the novice section but it bled down as well - was covered thick with euro SW AM broadcasts.

I do not think it is a bust of Part 97 to operate CW, in our CW band, over foreigners who think it's a good idea to be there too.

I think it is perfectly natural to carry on a CW QSO on top of any voice mode - mostly because there was no section of the novice segment that wasn't thick with euro voice modes when I was young. That seemed like a minor hassle compared to the russian woodpecker!

I do encourage further international cooperation in the rationalization of the european band plans so they coincide better with ours. There has been a lot of progress in the past 30-40 years especially on the 40M issues and am I confident that we can end up with a large CW section for everyone to share worldwide, because in fact 40M is one of the best bands for worldwide communications, so it makes perfect sense to reach harmony there.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 12:32:09 PM by N3QE » Logged
G4AON
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Posts: 516




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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 04:26:19 AM »

If it helps with potential QRM from over here in Europe, the UK (and I guess they are similar for most of Europe) band plans are here:
http://www.rsgb.org/committees/spectrumforum/docs/rsgb_band_plan_2012.htm

The 40m band plan appears to have been updated to 1st Jan 2012, so is pretty much up to date.

73 Dave
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N3QE
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 06:30:40 AM »

If it helps with potential QRM from over here in Europe, the UK (and I guess they are similar for most of Europe) band plans are here:
http://www.rsgb.org/committees/spectrumforum/docs/rsgb_band_plan_2012.htm

The 40m band plan appears to have been updated to 1st Jan 2012, so is pretty much up to date.

73 Dave

I am really bothered that as 40M band plans are updated, the CW sliver gets smaller and smaller. What was SUPPOSED to happen as the SW broadcasters moved out, is that the traditional Region 2/US CW section was supposed to remain CW.

("SUPPOSED" is put in caps because that's what I personally expected).

In this respect the RSGB band plan you showed is in some ways more equitable than the actual-in-broad-usage US band plans, where anything above 7035 or 7030 is likely to be claimed as digital's domain. In many ways its harder to operate CW on top of the digital mode intruders as compared to operating over voice ops.

40M above the extra segment (which I have no problem with DX hanging out in) has always been the meat and potatoes band for day-in-day-out CW usage from casual ops, traffic nets, county hunting nets, ragchews, QRP'ers, etc., and the remaining non-Extra sliver is just way way too thin for all those groups. This isn't right and isn't good for CW long term. I know the ARRL is trying to help by claiming that PSK31 should center at 7075, but the de facto PSK31 frequency is really 7035 for all purposes. I know that many CW folks go up to 7100-7110 for extra breathing room but this fragments the band unnecessarily, we all used to share the CW segment without this unnatural digital no-mans land.

OK, rant and rave finished for now :-)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:36:46 AM by N3QE » Logged
WX7G
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Posts: 5918




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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 12:06:16 PM »

I keep the bandwidth at 200 Hz and don't notice them.
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WA4FNG
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Posts: 162




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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 12:40:48 PM »

Plenty of people will work you QRS on 30m. Just be aware that most of the DX and faster ops tend to hang out below 10110. Quite often you'll find QRP'ers around 10116 or so and usually they are QRS. I'll call you if I hear you.
-73
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KB4MB
Member

Posts: 295




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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 12:50:08 PM »

I tried a couple of times CQing on 30m, but no takers.  40m, OTOH, I almost only need to CQ once and I will find someone, day or night.

I still don't know if operating on top of a legitimate SSB station is okay on 40m, though a few people here said they do.  The worst has been the digital guys firing up on top of a QSO that has been going on for 20 minutes... but what can you do?

I was hoping the XYL would approve the 500hz filter purchase, but she is right that we don't have the money to spend yet - way too many bills for me to go and spend on myself (though I just won an award at work!)  Oh well, maybe with the tax returns Smiley
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G4AON
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Posts: 516




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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 01:17:56 PM »

Not having a narrow IF filter is going to cause you problems as 40m can be crowded at times. While I have Pactor here, I am not sure of all the 7MHz frequencies stations use to call into Winlink or bulletin boards, but most seem to be higher than 7.040, so CW below that should be mostly free of QRM. Unfortunately, a few automatic data stations don't stick to band plans and equally many who call into them don't care who they cause QRM to...

That narrow filter needs to be on your shopping list... As to suggested frequencies on 40m, here the QRP centre frequency is 7.030 and a call on there usually gets results.

73 Dave
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K8JD
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 11:17:40 AM »

One place where an example in my experience stands out;
 7055 is a gathering freq for the SKCC (straight key CW club) members and also is the freq for a Canadian SSB net.
Transmitting CW on the exact supressed carrier freq should cause no trouble to the SSB listeners and recieving cW on the USB side of the IF with a narrow filter should minimize splatter from the LSB transmitters.
Coexistance Between the modes IS possible.
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73...John
SKCC 1395T, FISTS 3853
Official US Taxpayer
K8JD
Member

Posts: 51




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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 11:22:53 AM »

We will be authorized to send CW as well as other modes in addition to USB fone on 60M in a few days.
Yet, to my dismay, the fcc only allows CEW on the exact channel center.
 Quite a problem , because to a reciever listening for SSB traffic, this produces a 1500 HZ note, very irritating at least.
If I was writing the specs, I would put the CW stations on the supressed carrier freq for SSB on each channel and no SSB recievers would have to  hear it !
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73...John
SKCC 1395T, FISTS 3853
Official US Taxpayer
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