Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Using 102 whip for mobile IC-7000  (Read 6588 times)
AD6FC
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« on: February 17, 2012, 02:32:04 PM »

Need some advice, please. I will have installed in a 2012 Kia Sedona EX an IC-7000, tuned by LDG IT-100, using Larsen UHF/VHF. I am getting almost everything from HRO in Portland, OR. They recommend using a 102-inch stainless steel whip and a spring coil for the HF antenna; however, it's too bulky to ship down to Northern California. It should tune up with the IT-100, and apparently can be added upon to make a long wire (while stationary.) My questions: will this be fairly adequate? And, where best to find such an item?
Please stay focused! I know I may receive flack from 1. Kia Sedona; 2. Icom (-7000); 3. HRO-> in that order, but these are about the best that circumstances allow.
With apologies for much ignorance, thanks in advance for help and/or information.
Fred, AD6FC
Logged
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13112




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 02:42:54 PM »

Check a local truck stop or other place that sells CB radios to find the whip locally.
Logged
KF6ABU
Member

Posts: 351




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 04:48:36 PM »

they have those whips at radio shack, cb antenna.
Logged
KC7YE
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 06:05:30 PM »

How so too long to ship ? Got my whip from DX Engineering late last year, shipped to WA state from IL.
Logged
KE5PPH
Member

Posts: 73




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 06:57:09 PM »

 Angry   pure Laziness.
Logged
AD6FC
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 09:23:55 PM »

Thank you all for responding. HRO told me that they receive these things in lots of 60-100, packed in one large tube. The cost of one such tube is, apparently, prohibitive for them to use on a single whip. Radio Shacks have been out for some time or are DC'ing the item.
I was still looking for some kind of feedback on my proposed setup, and would be happy to hear even negative responses. Thanks again for the courteous help!
AD6FC
Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 05:19:40 AM »

If you can't find the 102" stainless steel whip at a local communications dealer, you can get a 108" one from MFJ for $26.95. Check around at local CB dealers. They may have one for less. These whips can be used with a spring, but it is not necessary. They act like a spring themselves and are quite strong. I bend mine over and secure it everyday for garaging. If you buy a spring, make sure it is stainless steel so it won't rust and degrade performance.  Wink

An inexpensive flat bumper mount that bolts to a hole in the bottom of the bumper works well and they are strong enough for long use. Make sure you get one that has the SO239 connector for your coax. You don't want open connections on a bumper mount that low to the ground, or any mobile antenna for that matter. You will be driving through mud puddles. Cry

I have been using these whips for over 40 years. The are inexpensive, durable and reliable. Out of the box you can use them on 10, 11 and 12 meters without a tuner, if they are 108". If they are 102", just add the spring. They will get you down to 20 meters with a tuner. Lower frequencies will require an Inducti-Match open base coil and tap. You can get one from AES for $29.99. That will get you down to 40 meters. Expensive screwdriver antennas will go that low. Really expensive screwdriver  antennas will work down to 80 meters, but don't expect too much efficiency. For the money and long term durability, the stainless steel whip is the way to go!  Grin  

You probably would have gotten a better response if you had posted this under "Mobile Ham."  Smiley    
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 07:22:47 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
AD6FC
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 10:21:07 AM »

Thanks, Vern (Guy). This is very useful information and gives me more incentive to go ahead with the project.
To be honest, I have not been on Eham recently - this is regrettable as I always knew that the site is a vast resource for knowledge, ideas, and even criticisms. I was just too lazy to go looking for a more appropriate forum.
My greatest concern is getting all of this installed properly as I now lack the physical abilities I had at age 20.
Sincerely, thank you!
FAD6FC
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12766




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 11:22:34 AM »

What HF bands are you intending to operate? First, I would be afraid that the IT100 tuner (which as a 10:1 range) would not be able to match the 102-inch whip on 75M and 40M. One of the tuners designed primarily for end-feeding a wire (SGC or MFJ) is better suited for all band use of a 102-inch whip.

A 102-inch whip impedance on bands other than 10M is too high to use coax between the tuner and the antenna without incurring a lot of loss. You need to locate the tuner very close to the base of the whip so that you can use a short single-wire feed line (which actually becomes part of the antenna).

Even with a proper tuner and installation, a 102-inch whip is pretty inefficient on 75M. If you're really into 75M and perhaps 40M then you may want to consider one of the big screwdriver antennas (not the short versions).

I would also recommend that you look into the Hamstick (or similar antennas). They work pretty well on 40M and up and they can be made to work without a tuner. They are relatively inexpensive. The downside is that you have to get out and change the whip to change bands.

Another slightly more expensive option is the Newtronics Hustler antenna. It has a fixed mast and you change out the loading coil on top to change bands.

Bottom line is that if you are expecting to mount the 102-inch whip on the rear bumper and run coax up to the dash board where the IT100 tuner and radio will be located then I think that you will be highly disappointed - on other than the 10M band.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 11:24:46 AM by AA4PB » Logged
WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 392




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 12:27:58 PM »

I don't have a Kia Sedona, but I have used a 102" whip and LDG Z11 autotuner with
an ICOM 706MKIIG and an ICOM 7000. The combination worked OK 20-10 meters and
barely on 40 meters. 80 meters was no-go. As has already been mentioned, locating the
autotuner close to the radio instead of near the antenna can create problems. If you can
get an ICOM AH-4 autotuner and locate it near the base of your whip (even inside the trunk of your car) that will work much better than using the LDG close to the rig.
  Radio Shack carries the 102" whips (well, two local to me do) and some CB shops do as well. Getting the 108" from MJF (or DX Engineering) while a bit more expensive, is better still. Even with the 102" whip, I would forgo the spring. Most are too flexible and cause problems. (the whip will move enough without it) The only spring I have seen that didn't allow the whip to sail backwards towards autos following me, were the military surplus springs. And those are heavy as can be. (and hard to find except at hamfests)
The Hamstick antennas are nice as well. But, you need room in your vehicle to store them when you are using one of a set. Hustler antennas and coils are nice and don't take up near as much room.  Screwdriver antennas are the way to go if you are serious about mobile HF. Not as cheap as the other solutions, but, much more efficient and easy to use once properly set up. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how much mobile HF you think you will want to do. I run mobile in my pickup and an 18 wheeler. I spend so much time away from home (although home daily) that mobile HF really pays off for me.
james
WD5GWY
 
Logged
AD6FC
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 02:56:29 PM »

Thanks, Bob and James!
Well, I've never operated any mobile HF, so I'm interested in doing all I can. A recent contact requested a "sked" on 60 meters, and nobody in my grid has that capability, so that will also be of interest. I want to be able to quickly remove the rig and bring it inside where it will load into a 5-band quagi, to be put up when the weather improves. The rig has a detachable head, and I'm considering the main unit under a seat, but don't know what that will do to sound from its speaker.
My wife will allow holes to be bored through the roof of her new car, and no, she does not drink! Swapping loading coils or Hamsticks is difficult for me, as I'm a double-amputee (legs) and I never was very tall, anyway. Radio Shack in Brookings, OR has the 102" SS whip, and they will install the rig, tuner, antennas, etc. The current budget just doesn't allow for most of the finer screwdriver antennas; maybe Father's Day, birthday, Christmas...
For now, I just want to try to do all I can with all I (will) have. MFJ has telescoping SS whips in 8, 12, 16 foot lengths. My wife would be happier with these, as they collapse to about 27". What do you think of these? Are they tough enough?
I am very grateful for all the invaluable help and information, current and yet to be. Amateur Radio, like life, is fraught with decisions and consequences - as long as they stay fun, I don't care!
Fred AD6FC
Logged
WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 392




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 03:25:37 PM »

The telescoping whips are fine for portable operations with a tuner. But, not for mobile operation.(too tall, much too flexible)  An auto tuner and 102" or 108" whip will not work on 60 meters. The telescoping whips might just work on 60. (haven't used one so I cannot say for certain)
  I use an ICOM 706MKIIG in my pickup and the main body is mounted under the rear seat.
(extended cab Dodge) and I have an external speaker connected to the remote head and the audio is plenty loud. The speaker under the rear seat is too muffled for me to hear it clearly. (too many years driving diesel rigs has made me hard of hearing)So, that's the reason for the remote speaker.
  If HRO is installing the setup for you, then everything should be fine. (at first reading your last post, I thought you were saying Radio Shack was installing it,,,,,,,,,,,I'd be leery of that one!)
   When budget allows, and you have decided you really like mobile/portable HF, then get a screwdriver antenna. Other than the autotuner/whip combo, it is the easiest antenna to use. But, the big difference, is the screwdriver antenna will be resonant (after adjusting) on each band of interest and it takes very little time, once you are used to using it to adjust it. And it will be more efficient than the auto tuner/whip combo.
  The main thing is to get on the air. And starting out with the auto tuner/whip setup beats everything else I and others have suggested, given your situation. You can upgrade your antenna system later on as funds and interest permit.
Hope to work you mobile to mobile one day soon!
james
WD5GWY
Logged
WA2LLN
Member

Posts: 17




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 12:44:18 AM »

I also drive a Sedona, and installed an IC7000 with SDG tuner, tuner interface from AA4PB and a 102-inch whip and spring.  I picked up the whip at the Dayton Hamvention a couple of years ago.  The setup works fine on 20m-10m.  It will tune on 80m and 40m, but efficiency is horrible and contacts on 40m are few and far between.  I have listened on 80m, but I have yet to try making any contacts on that band.  I'm pretty certain I would only be frustrated.

I used a Breedlove ball mount on the driver side rear pillar, just above the crease in the sheet metal.  The tuner is mounted behind the plastic trim above the wheel well, as close as I could get it to the antenna.  The radio itself is mounted under the drivers seat, and the control head is mounted on an articulating mount from KG4YNI that is attached to the front of the center console.

The Breelove mount is very heavy duty.  I bought it with a quick disconnect so I can remove the antenna as needed for the car wash or parking garage.  It would support a hamstick style antenna or the Hustler center loaded antennas as well.  I'm considering getting a Hustler setup for 40m, it might do a bit better on that band than the whip and its inexpensive enough to give it a try while keeping my expectations in check.

I've posted a few photos at http://www.artg.tv/amateur-radio-pix.html

I strongly suggest you take the time to read through K0BG's website.  There is a lot of good information there.

--
Art
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 12:49:50 AM by WA2LLN » Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 07:38:02 AM »

Art, thanks for posting information for the original inquirer. It is always good to have testimony from someone who is actually using the equipment in question. Excellent photos as well!  Grin

Before you spend money on the Hustler, why don't you try the Inducti-Match coil on your whip. You will have to remove the spring, but the tap will be easy to set or disconnect as needed and less troublesome than swapping antennas. That will definitely get you on 40 meters and you will probably be able to make contacts on 80 with another coil tap point. On the higher frequencies you just disconnect the tap. For $29.00, if you don't like it, you can always take it back to the store or use it on a portable antenna.  Wink

If you want to extend your whip's length for better efficiency at lower frequencies, add the MFJ 4 1/2 foot extender mast for $19.95! Place your spring on the bottom for flexibility. You can even try one of their 40 or 75 meter ham sticks on top of the extender mast as a center loaded antenna for $14.95 each. $35.00 total for a center loaded low band convertible HF antenna is pretty cheap!  Smiley  
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 08:33:57 PM by KI4SDY » Logged
W5DXP
Member

Posts: 3551


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 07:52:16 AM »

When I lived in AZ, I ran a SS CB whip with a 3 foot bottom section under it driven by an SG-230 autotuner at the base. Like others, it worked well on 20m-10m but not recommended for anything below 14 MHz.
Logged

73, Cecil, www.w5dxp.com
The purpose of an antenna tuner is to increase the current through the radiation resistance at the antenna to the maximum available magnitude resulting in a radiated power of I2(RRAD) from the antenna.
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!