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Author Topic: Legal cheating on CW test.  (Read 1240 times)
KD5PSH
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Posts: 10




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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2005, 07:07:34 AM »

I see that the fellow that submitted this inane bit of nonsense is an "extra". Do you suppose he figured out how to cheat there too?

When in college, I knew a fellow that contrived to place all of the formulae for a physics class on a scroll inside his wrist watch. I saw him later and asked how he did on the final. He replied that, by the time he got everything copied onto a workable scroll, he realized he had memorized all of the formulas and did not need his cheating device.
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KU4UV
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2005, 11:14:10 AM »

This is exactly why the code speed for acquiring General Class and up privileges should have never been reduced to just 5 WPM too.  Try writing down just dots and dashes at about 15 or 20 WPM instead of being able to "decode" the sound in your head.  Your arm will fall off!  I made the stupid mistake of trying to learn the code by "sight" instead of sound when I first started out.  Don't do this folks, it will only hurt you in the long run.  I suggest you download the free Koch CW program from G4FON's web site and practice the code with it.  I wish I would have had it back in 1993 when I was learning code.  Just one man's opinion.

73,

KU4UV
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KU4UV
Member

Posts: 376




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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2005, 11:20:31 AM »

Oh yeah, I forgot to add one thing.  If it were up to me, the FCC would still require ham applicants to be able to send at at least 5 WPM in order to acquire HF privileges as well, but I know those days are long gone.  I remember talking to a guy on the air about 12 years ago who told me when he first took his ham license, you had to be able to draw a diagram of a working AM phone transmitter, and it had to be drawn correctly too in order to pass.  I think this guy was in his 80's.  Try that today and a lot of hams would never make it.  Just the laziness and the "gimme" attitude of society today I guess.

73,
KU4UV
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NA4IT
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Posts: 875


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« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2006, 06:02:27 AM »

There is nothing in FCC Part 97 that says an applicant cannot write down code in dots and dashes on his copy sheet, however, it will not count as copied code for the 1 minute solid copy, and the applicant must answer the test questions in the English alphabet.

In my opinion, a VE that restricts an applicant from writing down characters in dots and dashes on his copy sheet is not following FCC Part 97 rules.
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KV8Z
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Posts: 3




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« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2006, 06:32:03 AM »

When I took the element 1 test back in February, 2005, I copied whatever characters I heard.  If I did not recognize one, I put a dash there, instead. (Actually, it was an underscore mark.) Then afterward, I would go back and fill in what I could.  As a VE, I would likely disqualify anyone writing down the dots and dashes, since Part 97 requires a ham to "receive correctly by ear." IMO copying dits and dahs for later translation does not meet this requirement.

73,
Chris
KV8Z
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N0IU
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Posts: 1294


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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2006, 07:37:00 PM »

I agree with KV8Z. If you are going to accuse someone of illegal activity, then you might want to become familiar with the statute under which they are being accused. Here is Part 97 as it applies to Morse code testing:

97.503 Element Standards

(a)   A telegraphy examination must be sufficient to prove that the examinee has the ability to send correctly by hand and to receive correctly by ear texts in the international Morse code at not less than the prescribed speed, using all the letters of the alphabet, numerals 0-9, period, comma, question mark, slant mark and prosigns AR, BT and SK.
Element 1: 5 words per minute.

There are two key words that make it perfectly legal to disallow dash and dot markings on the examinees paper: by ear. If the examinee puts dots and dashes on the paper and then translates those into letters, numbers and so forth at a later time, they are doing so by sight, not by ear. Of course there are circumstances that allow accommodated methods of proof (such as with flashing lights), but those are reserved for those with profound or total hearing loss or some other disability.

I disallow dots and dashes. Sue me!

Scott N0IU
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N0IU
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Posts: 1294


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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2006, 08:24:59 PM »

While you are at it, take the ARRL to court. Page 46 of the VE manual states:

“Announce Any Grading Protocol Your Team Will Follow.  What’s a grading protocol?  From time to time an examinee will write dots and dashes on his or her code copy sheet.  When this occurs, some VE teams have decided, outright, that the examinee has not met the intent of the FCC requirements, and the team therefore issues the examinee a failing grade. FCC Rules offers no guidance regarding dot/dash copy/transcriptions.

Although the ARRL/VEC is of the opinion that writing dot and dash characters (transcripts) on a copy sheet does not in and of itself demonstrate ability to copy (or translate) the Morse code at the prescribed speed, because the FCC provides no guidance in this area, we leave it to you--the VE and VE team--to decide how many, if any, dot and dash characters you will allow an examinee to include (and translate) on his or her code copy sheet--and how much time the applicant may take to translate the dot/dash characters.

You must decide whether your team will allow any, some or all text to be first written as dot and dash characters and later translated.   If you do not accept any dot/dash characters on a code copy sheet, you must announce this protocol to all applicants taking the Morse code test before the Morse code message begins. The same is true for allowing some characters, or unlimited characters.  

If your team doesn’t care, or you make no clear announcement at the beginning of every Morse code test segment, your team must be prepared to accept any form of code copy.

Your team must set a Morse code examination grading policy; your team must always announce this policy at the beginning of every test session; and your team must always follow the policy you have established.  If at some future date your team feels that a change in policy is desired, then do so.  But, always announce the current policy you will follow at the beginning of every test session you hold.”

See you in court! Hope you have a good lawyer!

Scott N0IU
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WW0H
Member

Posts: 7




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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2006, 11:28:47 AM »

I haven't served as a VE in some time, but I don't remember ever giving a candidate a time frame in which to complete the test - written or code.  After all, what do you do with someone with a disability who can copy code, but cant' write?  Or any other valid disability?  

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AG6RN
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2006, 11:09:47 PM »

This just came up for me today actualy.  I went in and took my general and 5wpm test.  The person before me couldn't answer enough of the questions, and her "copy" was probably about half charachters and half ditdahs.  Even with the translating of her ditdahs she only had one section of 1 minute"copy" and it was exactly 25 charachters.  One of the VEs at first said that it wasn't allowed, and another thought it was.  She was claiming that her study books (Gordon West books) said it was legal also.  They went and looked it up , and since they had made no announcement they had to allow it.

I tested after her aand except for getting "Si Jack." instead of "Hi Jack." and "My name is Ojtn" instead of "My name is Owen" I had 100% copy.  I did miss one question since I couldn't figure out what Owen was supposed to be, I put John.

Sure she passed, but I guarantee the smile on my face on the way home was a lot bigger than hers.

N6CTM/AG
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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2006, 12:00:24 PM »

<< The person before me couldn't answer enough of the questions, and her "copy" was probably about half charachters and half ditdahs. Even with the translating of her ditdahs she only had one section of 1 minute"copy" and it was exactly 25 charachters.>>

Ditdahs written down only means that she can hear. It does NOT mean she understands what it stands for. She should heve been flunked and required to retest. The Gordon West book isn't the standard by which tests are given and no consideration should have been given for that.

73,

Lon - N3ZKP
Baltimore, Maryland
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N2WEC
Member

Posts: 182


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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2006, 03:02:18 PM »

You did not really learn CW, did you?
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W6ZF
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Posts: 13


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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2006, 08:47:17 AM »

What's the difference in writing dits and dahs on a test paper and/or going back to fill in omitted characters?

For my 20 wpm exam in 1990 I had the fill-in-the-blank exam. When copying if I missed a character I just pressed on to the next. So if I copied, "I am on my icycle," and the question was "What mode of transportation was the person using?" it was pretty easy to look at the text and figure out it was a bicycle. I could then also fill in the "b" in the text just in case I didn't pass this particular mode of exam and at least it would count toward the consecutive character copy.

When I used to test candidates for the Novice ticket, pre-VE, if they had dits and dahs on their paper it was okay with me...but it only counted toward their copy if the correct character was written there. Didn't matter to me if they wrote the correct character during or after the exam.

My job wasn't to try to keep anyone from obtaining an amateur radio license. Nor was my job to interpret law as I saw it personally. I just looked at a piece of paper after they were given the exam and were allowed a sufficient bit of time to review their work. Once they turned in that paper if there were 25 consecutive correct characters in the copy then they passed their code exam. To my knowledge, most of the code exams then were random character generation so no fill-in-the-blanks or multiple guess questions were available
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