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Author Topic: Need digital expert. Effect of SSB over PSK?  (Read 3742 times)
K0OD
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Posts: 2539




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« on: March 06, 2012, 08:03:59 AM »

Well, the "new" and very unique 60 meters opened Monday to huge crowds. On that band, upper sideband, PSK31, Pactor III and CW share the same five channels. All CW/digital must be on the precise same frequency!!! That's an NTIA requirement.

Some newbie has been calling CQ nonstop on psk31 for hours on the traditional DX/Calling frequency of 5405. His goal is apparently to be the first to work WAS on 60 on that mode.  Basically he's running a one-man contest on the band's most popular frequency. He's at 21 states, so his end is nowhere in sight. QSYing a KHz or two isn't an option on 60.

That channel is an international asset in that it's the only frequency common to all countries. For example, last night A92IO tried making USA Qs on 5405.0 CW and quickly gave up.

A good notch can take out the PSK. My Flex Radio tracking notch filter is wonderful for that purpose. I've used it to work sideband on the same channel with him. The goal isn't to QRM him but to gain some real estate on a very crowded band. (probably a temporary situation)

What is the effect of USB on 5403.5 and his PSK on 5405 (center channel is a requirement for 60 CW and digital)? From what I can tell, he's totally unaffected. I almost never work digital so I need to ask an expert. 
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AA4PB
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 10:33:12 AM »

It all depends on his setup. If he's running his receiver with a 50Hz wide IF filter then he probably doesn't even know you are there on SSB. If he's running his receiver with a 3KHz wide IF filter, looking at the whole waterfall, and your signal has much strength at his location then you probably pump is AGC and take out all but the very strongest PSK31 signals.
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AG6WT
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 08:49:36 AM »

Don't worry about QRMing the other op. If he has a problem with his AGC pumping it's up to him to get a rig that has really narrow IF filters. What he'll see is not much different from what the other PSK31 operators see on 20 and 40 meters when the bands are hot, i.e. lots of digital, cw, and ssb qrm.
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G0GQK
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 02:08:52 PM »

From what I'm reading this band could cause the start of WW III. Encouraged by reading about this new addition to radio rioting and organised mayhem I listened all the way along 5 Mhz and never heard anything so it seems that nobody in Europe is using this channelised violence to the ears.  Sorry boys you never made the trip to the UK

Mel G0GQK
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N3WT
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 07:57:16 AM »

Seems that 60 meters has settled down a little now.  Not the uptick of activiity that I heard week of March 5.  However, most CW I hear is on Channel 1, 5332.0 Khz.  I think Channel 1 is the channel to use for CW.  Maybe channel 2 also, with channel One preferred. 

By the way, the Flex radios are a must have for serious SSB ops on 60 meters.  The savable Traking Notch Filter works perfectly to completely notch out CW and PSK, with no degrade in the SSB quality.    Also,  with a filter of 100hz  on receive for cw or psk ops, a SSB signal is not even heard. 
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W0BTU
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 08:52:35 AM »

SSB over PSK (or CW) on 60 is illegal, just like two simultaneous PSK QSOs or two CW QSOs at a time are illegal. Only ONE signal at a time is allowed per channel.


We can complain all we want to about that, but that's the law.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 08:54:22 AM by W0BTU » Logged

N5PVL
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Posts: 210




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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 10:46:35 AM »

Thank you, Mike, for the clarification.

73 DE Charles, N5PVL
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AA4PB
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 05:35:38 PM »

I think the rule is that ALL signals must have their occupied bandwidth centered in the assigned channel. This is the government way of doing things. Spreading out to avoid interferrence is not legal, even if the multiple frequencies are all within the assigned channel bandwidth. I don't think there is a law that actually states no more than one QSO is permitted per channel. Obviously you don't want to cause intentional interferrence to another station by transmitting on top of them. However, it is quite possible that propogration is such that multiple QSOs could occur on a channel IF the stations are not interferring with each other.
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N4UM
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 06:14:26 PM »

I typically use a 50Hz filter when operating on psk31 and usually experience little or no QRM from nearby signals. I don't think an SSB signal would have much effect on a psk31 station or CW station employing a decent narrowband filter.

I was on 60M two nights ago, made several CW QSO's on channel 1 and heard several others.  No problems were noted.  Heard no SSB on channel 1.  My prediction is that channel 1 will eventually become the de facto CW/digital channel.  Sure would be nice if one could operate anywhere within the channel boundaries when using a narrowband mode.

It really seems stupid that users of narrowband modes all must operate in the exact center of the channel.  It would seem that the FCC has no interests in "best practices" or spectrum conservation.  I'd love to hear their justification for requiring the practice.  Maybe there's something in the beltway water supply that destroys common sense.
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W0BTU
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2012, 07:54:53 PM »

I typically use a 50Hz filter when operating on psk31 and usually experience little or no QRM from nearby signals. I don't think an SSB signal would have much effect on a psk31 station or CW station employing a decent narrowband filter.

Maybe not. But it might have an effect on whether the station who intentionally breaks the one-signal-per-channel rule can keep their license or not.

And if enough people do that, it might have an effect on whether we can keep 60 meters or not.

Quote
I'd love to hear their justification for requiring the practice.  

Then read the links I posted above.

We have channels there because those 5 freqs are interleaved with other, non-amateur stations (I heard three of those last night tuning between the channels). It was either channels or no 60 meter allocation whatsoever.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 08:02:11 PM by W0BTU » Logged

AA4PB
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Posts: 12770




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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 07:03:19 AM »

The frequencies are government use frequencies controlled by NTIA which has agreed to share the specific channels provided that we abide by their channel assignment techniques.

I've read the supplied references and didn't see anything about a "one-signal-per-channel rule". If there were such a rule you would be in violation if, for example, two stations on the west coast were in QSO and two stations on the east coast were in QSO but they didn't hear each other because of propagation limitations. I think some are implying "one-signal-per-channel" because of the requirement that everyone operate in the center of the channel. If you intentionally QRM another QSO you may get hit with a rule violation for that, but not for violating a "one-signal-per-channel rule". Causing intentional QRM is a violation on any amateur band, not just 60M.


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