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Author Topic: Yaesu bails on FT450/FT450AT Owners  (Read 35571 times)
N0YXB
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Posts: 298




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« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2012, 10:04:11 AM »

Since this thread is about the FT-450, I'll just say I am a happy FT-450 owner and am pleased to see the update from KC2NYU.  Looking forward to many more years of service from this little rig.  When I buy my next rig, I do want to give the K3 a try though.  No matter which rig I buy next, I'll be keeping my little FT-450.
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Vince
K0OD
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Posts: 2520




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« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2012, 10:43:35 AM »

Quote
The FT-950... I spent the most time playing with it, but I was not really impressed with the band/receiver noise

K3:
Quote
"it is the quietest receiver, that actually receives,"

How could you know that unless you've tried multiple receivers side by side on every band and during all possible noise conditions, bandwidths etc?   Modern receivers generate virtually no noise themselves. Disconnect the antenna to prove that.
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AD6KA
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« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2012, 08:34:28 PM »

The older I get, the quieter my receivers sound!  Grin
Ken, AD6KA
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N3QE
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Posts: 2029




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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2012, 06:00:49 AM »

Quote
The FT-950... I spent the most time playing with it, but I was not really impressed with the band/receiver noise

K3:
Quote
"it is the quietest receiver, that actually receives,"

How could you know that unless you've tried multiple receivers side by side on every band and during all possible noise conditions, bandwidths etc?   Modern receivers generate virtually no noise themselves. Disconnect the antenna to prove that.

I don't own a K3 but I've used them at a contest station.

The K3's AGC has some differences from "traditional" ham receiver AGC's in sort of the default knob RF gain and affect on AGC.

Traditional ham receiver AGC is set to make the band noise just as loud as the signal. After all that's what AGC is about, right, making everything the same loudness?

The K3 works a little differently and a user is more likely to have it adjusted so that the band noise is quiet but audible , soft signals are soft, and loud signals are loud, and really loud signals, that's where the AGC actually begins kicking in, are loud too.

It's not that traditional ham receiver AGC systems can't be adjusted to give the same result. Usually turning the RF gain all the way down until band noise is quiet will get you there, probably with also done with turned up AF gain to make sure the AGC isn't kicking in. But there's something just a little different about the K3 that seems to make this the default mode, not something you have to go in and set up.

I remember... nearly 40 years ago when I was a kid visiting the local club and other hams were "evaluating" receivers. The litmus test was to hook up a speaker, disconnect the antenna, and make sure the radio could make its internal noise so loud it reached the pain threshold. Literally, that was the test! If your radio couldn't do that, it didn't have enough gain, according to that school of thought. I wonder how many hams' have ruined their ears using their radios with AGC configured like that.
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K0OD
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Posts: 2520




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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2012, 08:10:34 AM »

Don't have a K3 but I have a Flex-5000a among several radios. The Flex AGC (called AGC-T) can be set up about any way one desires. Incredibly, there are about 8 aspects of the AGC-T that can be adjusted in menus. I've never touched one of them! Or the AGC can simply be turned off as with almost any modern radio. That can be slightly useful with ultra weak CW on noisy bands. Flex also has the de rigueur DSP noise reduction thingie. New hams rave about it; older DXers almost never use it! Smiley

With all that tech, does my Flex pick up less atmospheric QRN on 160 (or even 10 with a decent antenna)?  I HOPE NOT.

Even if my radio were better or worse than another radio by, for example, a huge 3dB, could I determine that without a careful side by side a/b test? Do engineers at radio makers claim their receivers can normally hear weaker signals than their competitors? I don't think so.

See also
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance re things like "When your cult's flying saucer fails to arrive."  Or, when your new $12,000 radio can't hear weak DX any better than your old $700 one.

---
Litmus test of a receiver years ago was to disconnect the antenna and see if band noise dropped on ten meters. That was a valid test with novice junk like my NC-88. I don't think mine would pick up band noise even on 15 sometimes.
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W8JX
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Posts: 5350




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« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2012, 02:28:28 PM »

As to the software update issue, I relate a comparison between Hewlett Packard and Sony.  I purchased an HP computer at Sam's Club in 1999.  It came with Windows 98 installed.  I had purchased a Sony Vaio laptop computer about six months previously and it also had Windows 98 installed.  I was happy until two months later when Microsoft released Windows XP.  At the time Microsoft provided a utility disk that when run on a PC running Win 98 would provide a detailed listing of which drivers would have to be updated in order to properly run XP.  You ran the utility and printed out the list. 

I ran the utility on both computers and came up with about three printed pages of what would and wouldn't have to be addressed.  I then went to Sony's website and found they had addressed all the issues and provided detailed source and installation procedures to make the upgrade to XP.  Great I thought.  Then I went to Hewlett Packard's website expecting similar results.  WRONG!  They addressed the issue by stating they would not be supporting the upgrade and that if I wished to run XP, I should buy a new HP PC.  Mine was only two months old!  I have never purchased another personal  item from HP since.  Now that may not seem like a big deal, but it is because I worked in the Metrology field at the time in a nuclear power plant.  We used a lot of test equipment which I had a hand in purchasing.  I can tell you that except where the only choice was HP for an item of measuring and test equipment, I always specified Fluke or another vendor from that point forward.  I would estimate HP lost close to a million dollars in sales while I was there and I wasn't bashfull about telling my successor why I didn't specify HP unless it was the only source.

While this is not related to 450, do not blame HP or Sony for this mess, blame Microsoft for not being more clear about the update.  WIN9x was a shell that ran on a 16bit DOS kernel. XP was first main stream PnP 32 bit OS (NT was 32 bit but no plug and play and WIN2000 was not wildly deployed to desktop). There is no "easy" upgrade path from 16 bit to 32 bit and there can be hardware issues too. Just like today you cannot upgrade a 32 bit OS to 64 bit on 32 bit hardware.
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EI4GMB
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Posts: 166




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« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2012, 02:34:57 PM »

Do engineers at radio makers claim their receivers can normally hear weaker signals than their competitors? I don't think so.

I don't know about that Jeff. The folks at AOR claimed this to be the case of their AR 7030+ receiver, and Sherwood engineers proved it to be so! Grin

Best Regards

Fred EI4GMB
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'You can never plan the future by the past'

'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
KG8JF
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Posts: 298




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« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2012, 06:12:38 AM »

I have, "fired" Yaesu as a supplier that I patronize for just this very reason.  I had an FT 1000MP mkv and the power supply needed work.  The guy that I sent it to for repair could not get the necessary ICs from Yaesu.  I had it sent to Burghardt for repair and subsequentlu sold it and an 897D.  I will not do business with Yaesu.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5811




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« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2012, 09:41:43 AM »

Yaesu and Motorola went their separate ways this past December, but it seems that Yaesu took a page out of the Motorola handbook when (if) they made the decision not to support their older rigs.  Yes, I've had two Yaesu rigs, one with a blown power trace on the main board that Yaesu service said was 'unrepairable' and an older boat anchor HF rig.  

With the rig with the blown trace, after being told it was 'junk', I opened it up, saw the problem, soldered on a piece of wire and glued it to the area on the board where the trace was, and the rig worked just as well as it had before.  Yes, I understand that they may not want to repair the board, but they could have made mention of the blown trace to me instead of telling me that the whole rig was blown. 

After that experience and seeing this thread, I will definitely consider other manufacturers more favorably than Yaesu.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 06:44:37 AM by K1CJS » Logged
KF7CSO
Member

Posts: 309




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« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2012, 07:25:51 PM »

The software to update the FT-450/450AT is now available on the Yaesu website.

http://www.yaesu.com/

It's found under the FT-450D files. 
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Eric
WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




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« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2012, 09:31:49 AM »


Would you be willing to pay for the new firmware upgrades?
Interesting statement. And that is exactly what Flex Radio is
counting on with the coming introduction of their 6000 Series
SDR radios.
  They say they will give updates (bug fixes) for free. But, for
upgrades in features, that will cost money. ($200 a year)
I'm not sure that I would be willing to pay that amount of money
yearly on the chance they come up with a new "feature" that would
be compelling enough for me to want. So, as far as Flex Radio is
concerned, I'll keep my Flex 1500 rig and look for something else
to go with it. (well, I have quite a few other rigs to go with it, but,
I'm planning on getting rid of most of them and getting one very nice
radio...........with knobs and buttons!!)
The Yaesu FT-3000 looks promising, but, given the support issues that
I've read here and elsewhere(I have owned and still own some older
Yaesu HF rigs that are still chugging right along) I might wait to see
how others respond to the new radio.
james
WD5GWY
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AH6OY
Member

Posts: 11




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« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2013, 02:38:42 AM »

Go to the Yaesu website and register your 450 then look at the files available under Users Corner. You'll see a 9-28-12 update. The pdf update info file lists this update as giving the 60m freqs.

So if you feel left out and dejected go ahead and feel that way. I think you should register any Yaesu gear you have and check the files available in the owners section that will differ extremely from what you find in the usual product viewing section.

Have you heard of Yaesu's recent decision to abandon the owners of FT-450s and FT-450AT. Yaesu will provide  software updates to provide the FCC 60M digital frequency mods for the FT-450D but not the FT-450 and FT-450AT. But to make matters even worse, is that Yaesu removed all previous software updates for the 450 and 450AT radios from the Yaesu website.  It is all about a consumer buying a product and not getting appropriate 'customer service' in return. The 450 is a relatively new radio - a consumer has an expectation of support for a reasonable amount of time. This is tantamount to Microsoft no longer supporting Vista or XP after releasing Windows 7. It shows a complete lack of respect and us FT450 owners leaves feeling screwed by Yaesu.

Paul
kc2nyu

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K7RNO
Member

Posts: 279




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« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2013, 11:01:25 AM »

NCI with Yaesu, only a happy owner of a small FT-60.

To all those who are unhappy with a manufacturer's after sales support I offer this:
if you bought a product because it gave you the most bang for your buck, then you did not pay upfront for future customer support. If you find that the more expensive products offer better customer support, then do acknowledge that they were more expensive than what you wanted to pay and that you declined to pay for better customer support.
Complaining about lack of support and blaming the manufacturer of low-priced products is the wrong conclusion. Blame yourself for not wanting to pay for that support upfront.
The next time you buy the cheaper brand, be aware of what you declined on: support in the future.

Most of the time, you get what you pay for. And only if you paid for something that you didn't get do you have a point to complain.
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73,
aRNO
NAQCC #6870, SKCC #11131
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5811




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« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2013, 04:29:10 AM »

Sorry, but most of the time that "paying for future support" line is nothing but baloney.  Most of the time, the plain and simple truth of the matter is this:  The bigger the manufacturer, the better the support structure the manufacturer has.  After that, it is true that the more expensive the rig, the more support options you can access--for a set amount of time. 

I love hearing people who paid big bucks for a rig years ago complain about the lack of support now--and get told that their rig is too old.  If they indeed paid for future support, it would be available--but it isn't!  It HAS happened and will happen again.
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K7RNO
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Posts: 279




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« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2013, 08:32:55 AM »


Who in their right mind would expect lifelong service for any product, no matter what the price?

Big manufacturers with cheap products offer...cheap products. This includes cheap (= no) service.
Cheap buyers are just that and cannot expect to miraculously get costly service.

On one point we agree: a high price is no guarantee for good service. But a low price is pretty much a guarantee for no service.
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73,
aRNO
NAQCC #6870, SKCC #11131
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