Rules of trade when $$$ are not exchanged.

[VE3JUR]

Hi, I am in the midst of a trade that I initiated. Thus I would assume that makes me the seller?
When I received an email that the unit was on its way I responded with a nice reply and that I would ship my trade back the same day I received his. Well his response was weird, like angry, insulted and insulting! I was very nice and continue to be. Basically it’s obvious he wants me to ship this before I get his. Am I insulting him?
I feel more like warning flags should be going up rather than running out to the post office tomorrow because I am feeling somewhat intimidated to do so. Like I could care less how long his rig takes to get here I even told him to use the cheapest postal method. So why is he in such a rush? Is it me being paranoid, I’m the seller and well my station license, call sign, full name and address are available in any call book (same address the unit is being shipped to) and I’ve been a ham for 40 years soooo.
 Am I off base and should I just send it or am I simply doing what’s best, being careful and wait till I get his first? I have traded goods many times and this has never been a problem until now, so it could be a ham thing I suppose but I don’t know?

Any comments, help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am going with the majority on this one!

Thank You

73’s

Ron VE3JUR

[WB6VHK]

Ron:

     I agree with you 100%. Unless I knew the person I would hold off on shipping until I received something.

[VE3JUR]

Hi Darrell, thank you for your comments. I do not know him, but I honestly want to do the right thing and based on your words I feel I am. TY

Ron VE3JUR

[K2OWK]

Hi Ron, The way you are handling this is correct. On EBay the seller always gets paid before the item is shipped. Like you mentioned you are the seller in this transaction, you definitely need to wait until you receive the item you are trading for. This is the common practice, and if the fellow your are trading with is giving you a hard time I would definitely wait to receive the item he shipped. Always remember better safe then sorry.

73s

K2OWK

[HR2510]

When I received an email that the unit was on its way I responded with a nice reply and that I would ship my trade back the same day I received his. Well his response was weird, like angry, insulted and insulting! I was very nice and continue to be. Basically it’s obvious he wants me to ship this before I get his. Am I insulting him?

Yes.  I don't blame him for being pissed.  You agreed to a swap and then are reneging on the agreement after the fact.  If it was your intention to hold off shipping until his equipment arrived and was to your satisfaction, then you should have made that very clear from the beginning.  

If I was him I would say the deal is off and ask for my equipment to be returned at your expense.  You're the one breaking the original agreement not him.  

[VE3JUR]

Hi Ron, The way you are handling this is correct. On EBay the seller always gets paid before the item is shipped. Like you mentioned you are the seller in this transaction, you definitely need to wait until you receive the item you are trading for. This is the common practice, and if the fellow your are trading with is giving you a hard time I would definitely wait to receive the item he shipped. Always remember better safe then sorry.

73s

K2OWK

Hi Barry, Thank you for your input, I too feel this is the typical method and that's why I didn't ship. My thoughts were your words to a T. TY

73's

Ron 

[VE3JUR]

When I received an email that the unit was on its way I responded with a nice reply and that I would ship my trade back the same day I received his. Well his response was weird, like angry, insulted and insulting! I was very nice and continue to be. Basically it’s obvious he wants me to ship this before I get his. Am I insulting him?

Yes.  I don't blame him for being pissed.  You agreed to a swap and then are reneging on the agreement after the fact.  If it was your intention to hold off shipping until his equipment arrived and was to your satisfaction, then you should have made that very clear from the beginning.  

If I was him I would say the deal is off and ask for my equipment to be returned at your expense.  You're the one breaking the original agreement not him.  

Hi, thank you for your input but you have made many assumptions that are incorrect. It was never mentioned that I was going to ship at the same time. He told me he had shipped but he had not asked me when or to do so. When he told me he shipped it, I said great I’ll send mine within an hour of receiving his as the postal office is 15 minutes up the trail.

I have no tuner, antenna, dummy load or any test equipment other than a DVM. I have an add looking for one on eHam, and a forum post asking if an MJF 969 would work on low power, so nothing to test it with, sorry!

How often have you shipped before receiving payment, I’m curious if you would like to share?

My gut tells me this deal will be fine and this post only came to be because of his crassness. That brought about the red flags, had he been cool and nice like me I would have thought nothing of walking up to the postal office today!

Also, as I went on this forum before doing business, I noticed a tip to save every email, welllll been doing that so when/if the truth need be seen you too will agree with me, trust me!

Please forgive my laughter but I did not mislead him in anyway and if anything I would just send it back to him, un-opened and at his expense. And as stated in my post majority, rules. I neither insulted nor mislead him in anyway and to be sure I wrote this post. Had there been more replies like yours he would be getting his radio before I his. But it seems I am not alone.

Honestly thank you for your input, I do understand where you’re coming from but he did not make that clear and he should have before he shipped, had he, I would have never agreed to do that. And it is my sale, isn’t it? That makes me the seller!

73's
Ron

[N0LNY]

From my experience... people kind of perceive cash sales and equipment trades a bit different. If you pay cash... you pay the seller then they ship. For an equipment trade... both parties usually like to ship at the same time so the items arrive at the same time. I don't know why this is since his trade is considered your payment... but I guess folks have a harder time letting a radio "go" than to let cash "go".

Neither of you are really in the wrong. The other party is just being cautious with their property. Stick to your plan, ship immediately after receipt, and everything will be fine in a few days.

[VE3JUR]

From my experience... people kind of perceive cash sales and equipment trades a bit different. If you pay cash... you pay the seller then they ship. For an equipment trade... both parties usually like to ship at the same time so the items arrive at the same time. I don't know why this is since his trade is considered your payment... but I guess folks have a harder time letting a radio "go" than to let cash "go".

Neither of you are really in the wrong. The other party is just being cautious with their property. Stick to your plan, ship immediately after receipt, and everything will be fine in a few days.

Hi, well said and thank you for your input! Without doubt his will be shipped within the same day as I truly want him to be happy.  I agree we are both a little right and a little wrong. These details should have been discussed in advance and perhaps we simply both made incorrect assumptions.

Have a great day.

Ron

[W8ASA]

This post is a good example of why trades often don't go well. As the seller, it was your obligation to set the terms of the trade up front. That should have included shipping methods, timing of shipments, insurance considerations, DOA warranty, and whatever I may have forgotten in this hasty list.

Communication is very important. Don't assume anything. Your inner thoughts mean nothing to the other party. The more clearly the agreement is spelled out beforehand, the better the results will be -- given honesty on both ends.

Let us know how it works out. Good luck.

73

[VE3JUR]

This post is a good example of why trades often don't go well. As the seller, it was your obligation to set the terms of the trade up front. That should have included shipping methods, timing of shipments, insurance considerations, DOA warranty, and whatever I may have forgotten in this hasty list.

Communication is very important. Don't assume anything. Your inner thoughts mean nothing to the other party. The more clearly the agreement is spelled out beforehand, the better the results will be -- given honesty on both ends.

Let us know how it works out. Good luck.

73

Hi Ken, Thank you for your input.  We had both clearly discussed the condition of the gear we were trading and the methods we would ship. His last response afterwards was, “well I’m going to the post office tomorrow to ship some other stuff so I’ll just send it tomorrow.” No mention of like when will you be sending yours? He basically took over things in my opinion, acted quickly, I wanted to talk about if we should possibly insure the stuff but he had shipped before I got a chance to and well not much point now. All my correspondence with him was pleasant and I displayed a little joy. His were always quick 1-2 line responses. Yes I will definitely in the future make sure I spell out my terms but, I have to say a buyer has just as much responsibility if not more to understand all the terms as like he is taking the risk by sending $$ or a trade first! I will post how this un-folds and I have no doubt it will end in a good trade. BTW had he said we’ll ship both on the same day I would have said nope, payment first, regardless of it being cash or trade. You see Ken I was never asked that question and assumed $$/rig what’s the difference its still payment and the norm is payment first!

Have an excellent day.

73’s

Ron

[VE3JUR]

Good morning and thank you all for your input.  As stated in the beginning of my post I was going with the norm on this and well I have made my decision based on that.

I will be waiting for payment first as well I do still believe I did the right thing; the only mistake was neither of us had mentioned shipping on the same day. An assumption we both failed to discuss. I told him no rush, just send it cheap USPS and I would return mine via Canada Post! Those words should have invoked him to ask me, "well when are you are going to ship yours?" But he didn’t, he just shipped his out very quickly!

I have decided though since I do believe all will be fine and that in all probability I pricked his pride or credibility that I will return his via UPS or expedite it with Canada Post. He’ll get his in 2-3 business days after I his. It will cost me a little more but I never intended to tick him off or mislead him so I hope this will show my integrity and desire for him to be as happy as me.

73’s to all   

Ron

[VE3JUR]

Good morning and thank you all for your input.  As stated in the beginning of my post I was going with the norm on this and well I have made my decision based on that.

I will be waiting for payment first as well I do still believe I did the right thing; the only mistake was neither of us had mentioned shipping on the same day. An assumption we both failed to discuss. I told him no rush, just send it cheap USPS and I would return mine via Canada Post! Those words should have invoked him to ask me, "well when are you are going to ship yours?" But he didn’t, he just shipped his out very quickly!

I have decided though since I do believe all will be fine and that in all probability I pricked his pride or credibility that I will return his via UPS or expedite it with Canada Post. He’ll get his in 2-3 business days after I his. It will cost me a little more but I never intended to tick him off or mislead him so I hope this will show my integrity and desire for him to be as happy as me.

73’s to all   

Ron

Hi, well I got my radio. Well packed and in much better condition than I had expected as well I got the original manual and a few other little things as promised. It took 14 days to get here, (we had agreed on shipping as cheap as possible.) However as I had posted I would, I sent his back Expedited Parcel Post, he’ll have it in 4 days. Cost me a little more but he did do his part, promptly and honestly. However that said I still and always will believe, trade or $$$ come first if I’m selling something! After all I bought a tuner of eHam, sent the M/O first had we decided on a trade I would have shipped mine first because the seller of the tuner put up his add, as I did for what I was looking for. In my opinion that makes us both sellers!

Thanks for all the input guys I am happy and in 4 days he will be too.

BTW: Would I do business with him again? Absolutely, he complied in everyway with the exception of being nice and responding to not one of my emails since I told him I was waiting for his. But he did respond once he got the tracking number and seen it was shipped Expedited Parcel. He just needs a few happy pills or something, he is a miserable sort, sadly!

73’s

Ron VE3JUR