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Author Topic: 2E26 vs 6146  (Read 3644 times)
WN2C
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Posts: 439




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« on: April 09, 2012, 10:42:13 AM »

I have an old Rogers Electronics 'Black Widow' for 6 meters. These were made in about 1960. The original had a 2E26 in the final.  These rigs were made for 10, 6, 2 and 220 (all single band AM).  The later version had a 6146 in the final and were made w/ a vfo or rock bound. Is the 2E26 a direct replacement or do I need to find a schizmatik for the radio with the 6146 final in it? I have a copy of the manual for the 2 mtr version using the 2E26.  I would like to at some point get this radio working again.

Thanks
de Rick wn2c
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AC5UP
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Posts: 3835




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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 11:25:12 AM »

It's pronounced "squidmatic", except in New Jersey where it's "schizmatic"......... Apparently New Jersey is schizzier.

Anyway, here's a trick or you to try: Hit Control-T on your keyboard. If you're using Firefox a new tab opens up. In the new tab copy & paste this URL... http://www.nj7p.org/Common/Tube/SQL/Tube_query.php?Type=2E26

Do another Control-T. In the newest tab copy & paste this URL... http://www.nj7p.org/Common/Tube/SQL/Tube_query.php?Type=6146

You can now click back & forth between the two tabs as needed to contrast & compare the 2E26 against the 6146. You'll discover both tubes have the same base pinout, approximately the same interelectrode capacitance, and either tube is more than happy at 50 MHz. The 6146 can run 600 volts on the plate, 500 for the 2E26, and the 6146 is capable of significantly more output. Of course, that's moot if the power supply isn't stout enough to drive the tube that far. In which case the 6146 would operate in low stress / long life mode.

In general terms the two tubes are similar enough that as long as the plate of a 2E26 doesn't show any color at 'normal tune' the radio should work with either bottle....... (?)
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KD0REQ
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Posts: 896




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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 11:26:59 AM »

2E26 was the driver tube in 60s GE ProgLine radios for a pair of 6146s.  it has about half the plate dissipation as the 6146.  keep it natural, find a 2E26, there have to be a zillion of them around yet.
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AA4PB
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 11:44:46 AM »

If you want to get full output from the 6146 you will need more capacity in the power supply and a larger AM modulator, assuming it is plate modulation. The modulator needs to be capable of producing half as much power as the plate input of the final PA (2E26 or 6146) for 100% modulation.

If the original circuit used a 2E26, I'd stick with the 2E26. Nobody will notice the difference in power output, especially if you have low modulation or distortion because of power supply overload.
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N3QE
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 11:51:45 AM »

Check out the power supply in the Black Widow. I bet it is putting 350VDC on the final plates at maybe 60mA. At those voltages and currents it doesn't matter much whether there is a 2E26 or a 6146 in the socket.

I doubt a 6146 would be much good at 220MHz, the 2E26 might do better there, or maybe they went to a different design for 220MHz (I remember one VHF tube had two anode caps? Maybe for push-pull? What was that called?)
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AA4PB
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 11:58:00 AM »

An 829B or 5894?
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AA4PB
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 12:04:11 PM »

Reading between the lines a little, I think you are saying you have the version with the 6146 but only have a schematic for the 2E26 version. My guess is that the schematic is probably close enough for troubleshooting. You might find the final bias voltages a bit different. It is likely that you'll find a major issue like a shorted capacitor, etc.

Again, I see no reason to change the tube from the original design for your unit. Both are fairly easy to find.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 12:06:37 PM by AA4PB » Logged
N3QE
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Posts: 2155




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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 01:07:37 PM »

An 829B or 5894?

Those are beautiful tubes, but both of those seem too beefy. I seem to recall an even smaller dual beam tube used in lunchbox portables on 220MHz. I went to the QST indices but can't even find brand names right now, the first time they use lunchbox is in reference to the Heathkit lunchboxes of the late 60's, and what I think I'm remembering was in the early 60's or even late 50's.

You know the VHF/UHF lunchbox portables I mean? Super-regen receivers, AM transmitters, vibrator power supply? I think very similar models were advertised for public service and construction service radios in the trade magazines. Might have even been that UHF CB band that existed back then.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 01:18:00 PM by N3QE » Logged
W4XK
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Posts: 57




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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 01:23:03 PM »

I'll bet you are remembering the Vocaline series of VHF/UHF business ,CB, etc. transceivers.
Don't recall if they made any amateur rigs, but I remember a local dealer having those
"lunchbox" style radios in stock back in the mid-late '50s.

Bill W4XK
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N3QE
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 01:57:44 PM »

I'll bet you are remembering the Vocaline series of VHF/UHF business ,CB, etc. transceivers.
Don't recall if they made any amateur rigs, but I remember a local dealer having those
"lunchbox" style radios in stock back in the mid-late '50s.

Yes! Vocaline was one of the names! I see their dinky radios used a 6AF4A dual plate connection UHF triode as both a receiver super-regen and a transmitter oscillator. But I also recall some tube with two plate caps in a slightly more beefy model. I feel like the vocaline link is really close to what I remember... maybe I remember one of the IC Mfg UHF setups?Huh

Tim.
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K4RVN
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 05:25:29 PM »

Rick, the tube socket wiring is identical for the 2E26 and the 6146. As someone said changing tubes will not make any difference if the power supply is not for higher power with the 6146. You can plug the 6146 into the 2E26 socket or vice versa. I did this on my homebrew mobile rig back in the 60s, but can't remember the results.
There were no improvements I am sure as it was designed for a 2E26.

Frank
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WA3SKN
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Posts: 5457




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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 07:30:44 AM »

The 2E26 was designed for VHF use, the 6146 was really an upgraded HF power tube.
Unless you are planning to re-engineer the radio I would just leave it stock.
Now, what is the real reson the radio is not working, is it not transmitting or receiving?
Is it a final tube problem?

-Mike.
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WN2C
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Posts: 439




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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2012, 01:51:22 AM »

To all who replied, thanks! I may not have been clear in my O P, but this radio in it's later versions were sold w/ the 6146.  I have been looking for a schizmatik (yes UP, I'm from Jersey) on the internet but not having any luck and have not (in 16 years that I have been re-licensed) found one for sale or even seen one radio mentioned anywhere with the exception of an old CQ magazine add. 

SKN - Mike, the reason it is not working is I do not have (at the moment but working on it) the test equipment to get it going. I do remember a problem my Dad had w/ it not loading up and remember what the fix is for that.  This radio was in my garage (shack) when a fire occurred so it may got wet. It was under a desk that was away from the fire and not burned so I may get lucky.  I had some other equipment that survived and am using. 

Any way, I am looking for a schizmatik w/ the 6146 for it (if any one happens to come across one) but may have to do it the old fashioned way.

Thanks again to all and 73 for now.
de Rick  wn2c
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4465




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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2012, 05:40:54 AM »

How is the heater wired? If the rig was meant for mobile, it may well be part of a series heater string.

Heater current is 0.8 A for 2E26, 1,125A for 6146B and 1.25A for 6146, 6146A and 6146W.
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