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Author Topic: KH8/N9YU, 5W7A & 3D2R - Prep for Sept's Conway Reef trip  (Read 4116 times)
KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« on: April 09, 2012, 04:23:14 PM »

It looks like as the group makes its way through KH8 & now 5W, that they are not putting up with poor operating habits from others.

I heard them quickly QRT on several occasions when on KH8 the last few days and tonight, now that they are on 5W. Things get out-of-hand and they QRT.   I believe this will be their way of telling all of us to "shape up" or we won't be getting a new country for our DXCC tally!

Personally, I say good!  That's what needs to be done, they are the ones controlling the pile ups, they should set the rules.  If other operators can't play by the Dxpeditions rules, then a contact is not deserved.

Hrane & crew:  keep up the good job and hope to work you in September.

73 de Jim - KE8G
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AF3Y
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Posts: 3700




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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 05:07:07 PM »

It looks like as the group makes its way through KH8 & now 5W, that they are not putting up with poor operating habits from others.

I heard them quickly QRT on several occasions when on KH8 the last few days and tonight, now that they are on 5W. Things get out-of-hand and they QRT.   I believe this will be their way of telling all of us to "shape up" or we won't be getting a new country for our DXCC tally!

Personally, I say good!  That's what needs to be done, they are the ones controlling the pile ups, they should set the rules.  If other operators can't play by the Dxpeditions rules, then a contact is not deserved.

Hrane & crew:  keep up the good job and hope to work you in September.

73 de Jim - KE8G

Hrane is a great operator, but today, I could not figure out why he was doing what he seemed to be doing.
He seemed to be working simplex, but from time to time was actually working stations from simplex to up 1Kc. Add in a cop or two and A$$holes who were handing out QSLs as if they were the DX......  This created somewhat of a cluster foxtrot, if you get my drift. 
He did not do that very long tho, and was gone to another band. I dont need Conway or even anywhere they are working on this pre-expedition trip, but I need bandfills.
I am sure they will do a great job on Conway Reef.   Gene AF3Y
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K7KB
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Posts: 605




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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 05:58:56 PM »

I'm not sure if pulling the plug and going QRT is the best way to handle a pileup. Seems to me that many of the better DX'pedition operators know how to control the pileup and keep on plugging away, despite the rudeness of other operators.

John K7KB
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W6GX
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Posts: 2336




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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 06:14:28 PM »

Once upon a time I heard a DX op say 'there are too many callers, one at a time please!'. You can figure out what happened next. This is a true story.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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K6UJ
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Posts: 305




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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 06:35:24 PM »

I'm not sure if pulling the plug and going QRT is the best way to handle a pileup. Seems to me that many of the better DX'pedition operators know how to control the pileup and keep on plugging away, despite the rudeness of other operators.

John K7KB


My feelings also.  An example of great pileup management is the recent HK0NA, Malpelo dxpedition.  The ops would stay with you until they made a complete exchange, and got your reply.  I would not have 10M in the log for Malpelo if it wasn't for the ops patience with my little pistol station, hihi.  

Bob
K6UJ
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AB8MA
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Posts: 738




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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 08:27:09 PM »

Once upon a time I heard a DX op say 'there are too many callers, one at a time please!'. You can figure out what happened next. This is a true story.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Reminds me of the occasions where the DX operator will listen a while, and then say 'Again?'. Translates loosely as 'all together now'.
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W2IRT
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 09:34:24 PM »

Reminds me of the occasions where the DX operator will listen a while, and then say 'Again?'. Translates loosely as 'all together now'.
Actually that does work once in a while. You can almost make out one or two partials from the low rumble but nothing more, in which case "again" works from time to time. The other trick, when faced with a wall of indecipherable noise is to just pick a random letter. "Who's the Tango?" Invariably a couple of T's will show themselves, work those then hope someone else calls in with a loud signal and starts it over again Smiley
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W6GX
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 09:46:27 PM »

I like those DX ops that use numbers to thin the pileups.  It gives the little or QRP stations a chance.  However more than once I stumbled on a DX stations working the '5s' only.  I turn on the amplifier in anticipation for my turn when he goes to the '6s'.  Next thing I knew he's working the '4s'  Angry

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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W2IRT
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 10:27:08 PM »

By numbers is the absolutely worst way to run a pileup, bar none. Propagation can change quickly, and if you're a 2, he's calling 4s and the band's going out, you're probably screwed. The best way to run a big pile is to take the loudest callers first and foremost. Your rate will be high with loud/easy QSOs and pretty soon they'll have had their fill. The next tier will come easier and so on, until the herd thins out to almost nothing.

The only exception to this rule should be when there's a small window on a given band to the most difficult part of the world from where the DX is located. If it's a DXpedition (as opposed to a local in a rare location), I also love to hear them pause a few minutes here and there for QRP stations. I can also understand going by numbers with Europe since it's so remarkably dense, and numbers there mean nothing significant geographically speaking, whereas in NA it can be quite substantial.
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N6PSE
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 10:42:33 PM »

Working by the numbers was very effective from ST0R. The pileups at ST0R were particularly massive. We could work EU 24X7. For the first week, the pile ups were often 40KC wide.

In order to give North America a chance, we worked by the numbers following propagation. You could hear the band opening and the 1's, 2's. 3's and 8's were rolling on it. Soon the 4's, 5's, 9's and zeros. The window for 6's and 7's was very small and at some days it did not open.  I worked all across the USA going by the numbers starting with 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 then 8, followed by 9, then 0 and 5's. I would call for 6's and 7's and if none came back, I would start over with 1's again.  I could follow the grey-line in WinTest and see just where the band would open next and sure enough it did, right along with the grey line as it crossed the USA.

Working by the numbers can be effective in a large pile up with disciplined amateurs on both ends of the pile up.

Paul N6PSE
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NU1O
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Posts: 2606




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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 06:55:26 AM »

It looks like as the group makes its way through KH8 & now 5W, that they are not putting up with poor operating habits from others.

I heard them quickly QRT on several occasions when on KH8 the last few days and tonight, now that they are on 5W. Things get out-of-hand and they QRT.   I believe this will be their way of telling all of us to "shape up" or we won't be getting a new country for our DXCC tally!

Personally, I say good!  That's what needs to be done, they are the ones controlling the pile ups, they should set the rules.  If other operators can't play by the Dxpeditions rules, then a contact is not deserved.

Hrane & crew:  keep up the good job and hope to work you in September.

73 de Jim - KE8G

You can't control the behavior of lids and neither can I, so why do you think it is a good idea that they cancel the Conway expedition due to things beyond the control of 95% of us Amateurs who follow the rules? 

If Hrane pulls the plu I hope it is after I am in the log but before you have worked him!

73,

NU1O
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K9NW
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Posts: 435




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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 07:02:21 AM »

Quote
so why do you think it is a good idea that they cancel the Conway expedition


Please identify exactly where anything was said about cancelling the Conway expedition.
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KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 10:13:47 AM »

Quote
Quote
so why do you think it is a good idea that they cancel the Conway expedition


Please identify exactly where anything was said about cancelling the Conway expedition.

Mike (K9NW) thanks for the pickup on this!

NU1O, no where in my post do I say anything remotely close that the Conway DXpedition should be cancelled. 

My comments directly lead to the conclusion and say, if you do not operate according to the wants of the Dxpedition, then you don't deserve a contact. 

There are many Dxpeditons & individuals that have "black listed" operators due to interference and being rude on the air.  I have heard on occasions individual operators being singled out for being rude and told if they didn't stop, they would be black listed. 

They have the ability to make you believe you have worked them, but never receive a confirmation.

I wish everyone luck in working this one, as it's been a few years since the last visit to Conway.  I know I need it as an all time new one, so I am wishing for great proprogation and Hrane & crew making a lot of QSOs.

73 de Jim - KE8G
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W2IRT
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 10:18:20 AM »

Working by the numbers was very effective from ST0R. The pileups at ST0R were particularly massive. We could work EU 24X7. For the first week, the pile ups were often 40KC wide.

In order to give North America a chance, we worked by the numbers following propagation. You could hear the band opening and the 1's, 2's. 3's and 8's were rolling on it. Soon the 4's, 5's, 9's and zeros. The window for 6's and 7's was very small and at some days it did not open.  I worked all across the USA going by the numbers starting with 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 then 8, followed by 9, then 0 and 5's. I would call for 6's and 7's and if none came back, I would start over with 1's again.  I could follow the grey-line in WinTest and see just where the band would open next and sure enough it did, right along with the grey line as it crossed the USA.

Working by the numbers can be effective in a large pile up with disciplined amateurs on both ends of the pile up.

Paul, the problem with doing it in that fashion is guys who kept their callsigns when they moved. The 6 or the 7 who's living in New Jersey or Vermont is SOL. Ditto the 2s in California and so on. Likewise, as the afternoon/evening terminator sweeps across NA there's often residual propagation in the areas now in darkness. If all you're working are 6s and 7s but I can still hear you in 2-land, I don't get that shot. Obiously that's not a big deal in the early days of a DXpedition when I can just work you tomorrow, but as the end draws near that will get a lot of guys' blood pressure up.

It makes perfect sense to go by numbers for Europe and JA. Maybe go be regions for NA instead? East coast only, midwest or west coast only?
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WS3N
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 10:34:34 AM »

It looks like as the group makes its way through KH8 & now 5W, that they are not putting up with poor operating habits from others.

I heard them quickly QRT on several occasions when on KH8 the last few days and tonight, now that they are on 5W. Things get out-of-hand and they QRT.   I believe this will be their way of telling all of us to "shape up" or we won't be getting a new country for our DXCC tally!

Personally, I say good!  That's what needs to be done, they are the ones controlling the pile ups, they should set the rules.  If other operators can't play by the Dxpeditions rules, then a contact is not deserved.

Hrane & crew:  keep up the good job and hope to work you in September.

73 de Jim - KE8G

While I understand the impulse to apply a bit of strong medicine, with the hope that it brings some discipline to the unruly callers, that will only work if they are self-aware and can realize that they have transgressed. Unfortunately, in this case it is more like dealing with a pack of hungry dogs. If you remove their food when they misbehave, the next time you will be rewarded with behavior that is worse. They will still be hungry, and now afraid that you will again snatch the raw meat from their jaws before they've eaten their fill.
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