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Author Topic: ETHICS ISSUE: "SHARING" RT SYSTEMS HAM RADIO PROGRAMMING SOFTWARE  (Read 56639 times)
W4KYR
Member

Posts: 1044




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« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2014, 05:41:02 AM »

I agree with others that the assessment of bringing the computer (with the licensed programming software) to someones house to program a radio is fine, as well as letting others bring their radio over to the house/shop to program the radio.

Sharing the program itself is illegal and morally wrong unless the program in question is free to distribute to others. Many Linux programs are like this for example.

The question that some may have is what happens when the program itself is "Abandonware" which is a product, typically software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, and for which no product support is available.

Copying and sharing Abandonware would also be illegal, although I doubt anyone would get convicted in a court for sharing some obscure DOS ham radio program that no one has heard of or used in 20 years.

And then there is the issue of what if the company is no longer in business. Well, unless you have the permission of the company (that is out of business) to share or copy the software, then it is also illegal. So who would sue you if you did? I don't know.

.
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Still using Windows 98  ------------------ for Packet Radio.
K5TED
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Posts: 1187




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« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2014, 11:53:51 AM »

Do you think those countries would be doing as well (economically -- they're doing terribly in most other measures) if the US -- our consumerism, our invention, our innovation, our investment into R&D, our protection of IP -- didn't exist?  

Yes. Lots of the things you think you invented you didn't. Lots of things that were invented in the USA were done by immigrants. Innovation in the USA, especially when it comes from Apple or Google, tends to involve the theft of other people's IP if they can't buy the company.

Quote
If you're going to survive off of stealing, you need someone to steal from!

Something the USA has been quite good at, especially in the immediate aftermath of WW2 where they acquired many German scientists to use in their nuclear bomb programme.

And then there's the situations like the light bulb which was actually invented by Joseph Swan nearly two decades before Edison however Edison often gets credited for inventing it.


Yes, lots of things that were invented only became mainstream because they were brought to the U.S. or other countries, where consumers appreciated the value of an innovative product.

Nuclear bombs would have been used by Germany to promote Nazi rule.

Rocket science was mostly used to kill people until it was taken to Russia and the U.S. 

Davy invented the concept of using a short circuit to heat a filament for a short time. Swan tried to perfect it using a carbon paper filament. He didn't really have a useful "lightbulb". It took perseverance by Edison to actually devise a workable implementation.

Icarus mythically invented wings on man. He died. So did Otto Lithenthal. He died. . It took the Wright Bros. to perfect the implementation.

Early man discovered fire could be used for burning meat. So what?

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M6GOM
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Posts: 1050




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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2014, 12:58:57 PM »



Rocket science was mostly used to kill people until it was taken to Russia and the U.S. 


At which point both used it to make an arsenal of long range missiles for their newly discovered nuclear weapons and plunge the world into a Cold War.
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VA2PBJ
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Posts: 291




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« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2014, 03:09:16 PM »

And prevented a whole lot less killing than WWII.
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Peter
KA5PIU
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Posts: 446




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« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2014, 05:25:22 PM »

Hello.

Chinese radios as a rule use all the same firmware, it is open source.
For example baofeng.
I can make unlimited copies of the firmware, tell you exactly how it works, etc. it is open source.
I have Motorola Sabre radios that I have flushed the firmware from, and now run open source.
This programming software (RSS) is no longer needed.
Motorola spun off the semiconductor side (Freescale) and cellular side (Motorola Mobility).
So, going open source was easy.
The key advantage to me is that I can program a radio from a keypad, and no EULA.
So, this is a double edged sword, but from an end user standpoint, open source has advantages that closed software does not.
With that said RT systems is closed software, Chirp is not.
I can give anyone chirp, legally.
It is not that I dislike RT systems, but I prefer open source for this very reason.
Thank you.
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VA2PBJ
Member

Posts: 291




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« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2014, 06:13:45 PM »

But open source has problems that go along with any underfunded projects; poor QC. This is not the fault of the coders, more of the environment. An example would be Voip PBX software. I have tried 3 different distributions of AstrixPBX in my home, to find an alternitive for my workplace. They have all gone into a tailspin at some point and had to be wiped and rebuilt from scratch. You can't do that to a business.

Profit is what drives stability.
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Peter
KA5PIU
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Posts: 446




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« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2014, 12:59:29 AM »

But open source has problems that go along with any underfunded projects; poor QC. This is not the fault of the coders, more of the environment. An example would be Voip PBX software. I have tried 3 different distributions of AstrixPBX in my home, to find an alternitive for my workplace. They have all gone into a tailspin at some point and had to be wiped and rebuilt from scratch. You can't do that to a business.

Profit is what drives stability.
Hello.

USAA, one of the worlds largest insurance companies, uses cisco phones and open source for VoIp.
hundreds of phones.
I have a Trixbox here.
I have NEVER had any trouble, NEVER!
You can get open source with commercial support, that is what Red Hat and Fonality is.
http://www.fonality.com/about
http://rhel.redhat.com/?sc_cid=70160000000d8M3AAI&s_kwcid=AL!4205!3!43199037976!e!!g!!red%20hat%20enterprise%20linux&sc_cid=70160000000d8M3AAI&gclid=CjkKEQjwiPWcBRCTj_-Vz8fE3cMBEiQAZIMSUppO7g-3phLsKUIgghfVlbjh7Gwj65mINWW1ZeQ3jkXw_wcB&ef_id=UvUVawAABSWAHyei:20140615075234:s
So, you see, you can have your open source and commercial support.
If I were to copy red hat onto my computer, not a word would be said, what the site is paying for is only the support.
I run around with a Motorola talkie, that runs open source.
Every feature is open, every function, and dozens were added.
There is nothing Motorola can do, as the firmware is open source, supported by Freescale.
Thank you.
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VK4CH
Member

Posts: 19




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« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2014, 02:47:05 AM »

One thing you need to be aware of is that different countries have different laws and US law only applies to USA.

For example:

In my country, Australia, software can be sold second hand (something that has REALLY upset Microsoft), region coding on DVDs and games etc is illegal and software can be installed on as many devices as you like provided it is only ever used on one at a time.

Now before some "legal expert" arcs up, Microsoft and Sony aided by several major New York law firms went to war on this some years ago and left with their tails between their legs.
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Eeny meany miny moe
can you hear my radio
if you can let me know
eeny meany miny moe
AK7V
Member

Posts: 263




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« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2014, 09:50:24 AM »


... Lots of things that were invented in the USA were done by immigrants. ...


How does that, in any way, undermine my point?  The USA is a country of immigrants.  People come here, in part, in order to succeed.  Our environment, our laws, our ethos encourage invention and innovation.  Doesn't matter where the person comes from.
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KA5PIU
Member

Posts: 446




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« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2014, 11:52:45 AM »

Hello.

Australia has passed some laws that actually make sense.
In Australia, you OWN the software.
You can sell it, provided you sell all of the original material.
The EULA, the Australian courts have ruled against most of it.
If a person owns 50 computers but clearly is only going to use one at a time, there is nothing wrong with installing it on 50 computers, provided that they all belong to him.
But, if that person sells even one computer, the software must be removed or sold as well.
The rights to that software rests with the owner, and not the machine.
But, lets say it is a commercial firm, and it has 50 computers, than 50 licenses would be required.
I understand that and can agree with it.
Lets say you bought a computer with bundled software, a restore disc, and you have the very same model of computer, you may restore from any copy, as that was what was provided with that machine.
The license rests with that machine.
It came with XP, it can have XP reloaded, no matter where it came from.
Micro$oft says it is OEM, and provides no retail support? fine, so the consumer is free to find support outside of Micro$oft.
Again, this is Australia.
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WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 618




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« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2014, 07:38:36 PM »

BULLDOZE EVERY STINKING COMPUTER AND DUMP THEM ALL IN THE LANDFILL.  THIS WOULD BE AN INFINITELY HAPPIER WORLD; MAYBE EVEN, ONCE AGAIN, FIT TO LIVE IN!  (and, YES, I DO know what CAPITAL letters mean!)
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W3RSW
Member

Posts: 373




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« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2014, 12:48:37 PM »

Unless your driving a somewhat older car or a bicycle, better start walkin'.  Grin
Um, how'd'ja get on here anyway to use those Caps?

You knew you'd get humorous responses.
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Rick, W3RSW
W4KYR
Member

Posts: 1044




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« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2014, 06:21:31 PM »


If I were to copy red hat onto my computer, not a word would be said, what the site is paying for is only the support.


Anyone can download the  Red Hat clone called CentOS for free (It is Red Hat unbranded).  CentOS is for those who can do their own support. In addition, Scientific Linux is also considered a Red Hat Clone.  And then there is also Fedora. Recently there is an announcement that Red Hat and CentOS are actually joining forces.

http://www.zdnet.com/red-hat-incorporates-free-red-hat-clone-centos-7000024907/

"CentOS is a community project that is developed, maintained, and supported by and for its users and contributors. RHEL is a subscription product that is developed, maintained, and supported by Red Hat for its subscribers."
.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 06:23:44 PM by W4KYR » Logged

Still using Windows 98  ------------------ for Packet Radio.
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