Just moved to a condo with an HOA

[N0NZG]

Never in a million years would I have though that I would ever be moving from my house to a condo with an HOA. Ouch !!!  To everyone that says you always have a choice, NO some times you don’t. My wife just developed major health complications with her liver and can’t work any more, so we needed to cut  $1200 out of our monthly bills and a condo with an HOA let us do just that.

In the bylaws it said you must have a permit for ANY antenna installation. So just after they approved our membership ,but before closing I asked for a permit for My H5BTV  for SWL  use.  Wink Wink.  I was approved and we settled that I would ground mount it with in 4 feet of an oak tree I have in my yard on a corner lot.  It was a pretty easy sell really. In today’s real-estate market there are also a lot of empty condos and rentals the HOA wants that space occupied, maintained and most of all your dues every month, just about as badly as you want an antenna. I decided to strike while the iron was hot and start negations when I had the best advantage. 

Good luck to all in my situation , 73

[W5DQ]

Hope it works out for you. Good Luck and keep a low RF signature .... AND a very meticulous logbook. First time someone's stereo, TV or game console burps and they see you have an antenna, you're gonna be the guilty party, regardless of whether you even were home or not. A very meticulous logbook may be the saving grace that lets you keep your antenna up if it comes down to you vs the complainer & HOA. I doubt that you would win anyway but having some ammunitition is better than nothing at all I would think.

Sounds like you're a prime QRP candidate

73

Gene W5DQ

[N0NZG]

I don’t think I will have the time to set up the shack for about 2 months, with work and moving etc.. I was going to set up the antenna right away , but not attach any coax to it. I am sure the sight of a new antenna will bring the cry of TVI / RFI rather it’s from me or not. This way I can show anyone with such a concern that there is no way it could have been me. I may just leave it disconnected for longer and use an attic dipole and see what luck I have with that. I am sure I am going to develop a love for camping and portable operating. Now I have a great reason to build a Bit-X 20a  QRP 20m ssb transceiver.  I just got done building a linear amp and used it for about a year, now it’s going to storage for now.  One question I do have is , do I need a ground for anything other than lighting protection?  If I am running QRP on an attic dipole from my 2nd story shack , I don’t see a real need for a station ground what do y’all think?

[W5DQ]

I would think that a ground would not be needed unless you have an antenna(s) that require radials/grounds or you encounter any TVI/RFI problems. Running QRP, I highly doubt you should have any of those issues but you'll never know until you try it.

Even though I a nice home station and an array of different HF/6M antennas to use, I find that running mobile is lots of fun too. Before the mount broke (another of those rainy day projects but it never seems to rain too much in the deert out here , I had a FT-100D and a full size screwdriver antenna on my car. It was a blast working DX from the car on the way to and from work.

Gene W5DQ

[KC4MOP]

That Hustler vertical will surely need radials. Run many many and don't be tempted to go to legal limit. If you are less than 50 feet away from neighbors, 150 watts might be the limit. I don't know how close other people are to your station.
Grounding will not stop RFI. If your vertical antenna has insufficient radials the RF will find it's path through other means. Power lines, telephone lines etc.
A balanced antenna, like a dipole fed by OWL or coax will not be a big problem, unless you're running high power.

[KE4DRN]

Hi,

Hope your wife can get well soon.

Regards,

James

[STAYVERTICAL]

First, I hope your wife gets well soon.
Also, I understand your situation, as I am in a restricted housing community as well.

I don't know if this would fit in your budget or your operating mode, but I found an antenna tuner (remote in my case) for feeding
random wires a great help.

I use a remote atu with wires, one for the antenna radiator, and the other as a counterpoise.
The counterpoise can be tucked and hidden in whatever crevice presents itself.

Many residents will bristle about tubular, and obvious antennas, but seem to be blind to wires hanging in the sky from tree to balcony.
In this way you could get a pretty good antenna with a very small visibility footprint.

I have recently bought an LDG z100 plus which is intended for use with coax, but I have an adaptor from PL259 to two posts and use
it as a long wire atu.
This tuner is rated to tune from 6 to 800 ohms on HF - and that is about what many custom longwire tuners cover.

Since I use QRP with this tuner (although it can handle 100Watts), it is fine just using it in the shack with an end fed wire.
But, if you do, you will definitely need a counterpoise running outside somewhere - there is no avoiding that.

Remember, a wire can do as well or better than tubes, and the neighbours will never see it (until it's too late and it garrots them hi).

Good luck and 73 - Rob

[N0NZG]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I was greeted by an fellow condo dweller in my development yesterday. This guys is about 70 years old and an Extra class Ham. He saw my car tag and came by to introduce himself. So I walked back to his little yard and this guy has TWO 50 foot telescoping tubular crank up towers that are about 20 feet apart. WOW !!! This development has about 200 units with yard that vary from  10 X 20 feet to my corner yard that is 30 X 30 feet.  I plan on putting the Hustler vertical in the center of the yard with 60 , 20 foot long radials, and replant the lawn over the top of the radials or put in sod. So far my only major ham radio concern is the chain link fence that is 15 feet from my antenna. I am sure I will be able to get away with a magnet wire dipole too.

As far as my wife goes She is going to have her gallbladder removed and a liver biopsy done here on June 4th.  Thank You for all the well wishes.

73, to all

Jeremy

[AC4RD]

...set up the antenna right away , but not attach any coax to it. I am sure the sight of a new antenna will bring the cry of TVI / RFI rather it’s from me or not. This way I can show anyone with such a concern that there is no way it could have been me. ...

Jeremy, very very few people agree with me on this, but this is what I've been doing for over 20 years now, and it has always worked great for me.  

I'm active for a few months or a year, then rotate to another hobby for a while.  And any time I put up antennas and/or start playing on HF again, I tell my neighbors, the adjacent ones, that I'm going to be using my shortwave equipment, and please to call me if they get any interference.   I would rather resolve problems with friendly neighbors than argue with hostile neighbors.

Over the years, I've only had a FEW complaints of interference, and all of them were fixed very quickly and easily.  And I stay on good terms with my neighbors, which is how I like it.  It seems that 95% of hams disagree with me on this approach--but it works well for me.  FWIW.

[N0NZG]

Well, it’s been a month in the new place. So far I have had no reports of TVI/ RFI.  I have had 5  people ask about what ham radio is. And the condo board came by to look over my install and get my advise on other antenna issues. Over all this has been a very positive experience. The final tally is the H5BTV , a 16ga 60 foot long inverted vee that’s up 30 feet in an oak tree and a 2 meter mag mount on top of the shed.   My wife is doing well and recovering quickly, however I don’t think she will ever be able to work again.

73, Jeremy

[WB2WIK]

Jeremy, congrats on your wife and may she live long and healthy!  Nobody needs a gall bladder, but I'm not a doctor so can't comment on the other stuff.

Your experience is EXCELLENT, and probably better than most.

Around here, an HOA is usually a very bad thing because people are just crazy.

I've lived with covenants and an HOA just once in my life (1988-89) and would never, ever, ever, ever do that again.  Life's too short to have someone else making up rules that are silly.

But your experience validates it can be done, at least sometimes, and I hope to catch you on the air!  All the best to your XYL also.

[AC4RD]

Well, it’s been a month in the new place. So far I have had no reports of TVI/ RFI.  I have had 5  people ask about what ham radio is. And the condo board came by to look over my install and get my advise on other antenna issues. Over all this has been a very positive experience.

Jeremy, *congratulations* on having this go so well!  Have fun on the air!

[K2XT]

...... would never, ever, ever, ever do that again.  Life's too short to have someone else making up rules that are silly.

Steve, Your comments are related to a question I just posted elsewhere on this board.  Do you know, if the CC&R does not mention antennas or towers, does an HOA have a right to ADD such a restriction after the fact? 
For example, I looked at the rules for a new subdivision and in the list of restrictions were just 2 two things -  "no rusty unregistered cars in the front yard" and "if you put up a utility building it has to be the same appearance as the house."  So would this mean the HOA has no power to come around later and put limits on a tower?

[AC4RD]

...Do you know, if the CC&R does not mention antennas or towers, does an HOA have a right to ADD such a restriction after the fact?  For example, I looked at the rules for a new subdivision and in the list of restrictions were just 2 two things -  "no rusty unregistered cars in the front yard" and "if you put up a utility building it has to be the same appearance as the house."  So would this mean the HOA has no power to come around later and put limits on a tower?

In that other thread, I thought the advice to talk to a real-estate attorney before buying was a VERY good suggestion.  The CCR may not mention towers, but it might give the HOA power to "ensure the safety and attractive appearance of residences" or some even more-vague language.  Only a lawyer can really help you there--and a local attorney may also know what the HOA has been doing in the past.   An attorney could also help you create a contract with the HOA that will guarantee your ability to put up antennas, I believe.  And you want to do that BEFORE you buy!  JMHO.  GL!

[W0MT]

Do you know, if the CC&R does not mention antennas or towers, does an HOA have a right to ADD such a restriction after the fact?

Some states have figured out that after some number of years, what the CC&Rs say might not be relevant or desirable. For example I have seen CC&Rs that were written 60 years ago that prohibit metal roofs. What this was trying to do was to prevent the old corrugated metal roofs like you would see on tar-paper shacks. Today, there are metal roofs that are better looking than shingle roofs and they are great for areas with forest fires. Under the old common law, a change to the CC&Rs required 100% of the landowners to agree to the change. Of course the chance of that ever happening is zero. Colorado has enacted statutes that allow changes to the CC&Rs by a majority vote of the landowners. I don't remember the exact fraction but it was like 2/3 majority. I haven't checked recently but I don't think Colorado is the only state to pass such statutes.

That means that if one landowner (a Ham) says towers should be OK and the rest say the CC&Rs should prohibit them, the CC&Rs can be changed to prohibit them.

The recommendation to consult an attorney is spot on. Most advice you get on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it.