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Author Topic: Flex Site: "Imagine a transceiver that changes Ham Radio - Forever.."  (Read 44632 times)
N9RO
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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2012, 04:55:41 AM »

Gerald kept good to his no free beer commitment.  Notice we now have to pay a $199 yearly extortion fee (I am sure this will be going up) per year for software updates and support.  Software fixes/updates will be coming fast now to keep you paying the yearly fee.  I know good software is not free but not sure if paying yearly fee rather than paying for major updates is the customer friendly way?  However, it does include support so I guess you now can call Dudly and ask a question as long as you paid your money?  Flex radios are now not only Software Define but  shakedown radios. 
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Real techies don't use knobs.
NI0Z
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2012, 05:03:10 AM »

Game Changer means more to fiddle with as far as I can tell right now.  Not so,excited about this announcement and am glad I am sinking my dollars this year into a better antenna system.
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ZENKI
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2012, 05:05:17 AM »

I wonder if the 8  receivers can phase locked to the GPSDO  and be used for  beam steering, single site location DF or correlative interferometer use.

The rumored  price is well over $6K, for this price you would think they could throw in a inbuilt power supply and decent high voltage RF Fets.

What I like is the 3 TX connectors for relay control, this would make high speed QSK easy to implement on homebrew amplifiers.

Rack mounting sizing is a  great idea. Flex could then easily offer a external power supply and a external adaptive predistortion 200 watt PA. Top end radios should be 200 watts of output like the new Kenwood.
With rack mounting the options could really be endless. However Flexradio should have followed the overall architecture and  physical options of the R&S M3SR Series 4100 Software Defined Radios.

Its a shame remote panel is not available for the unit  and likewise a plug in external VFO pod.

The cheap and lousy Anderson power poles are cheap overrated connectors that causes a lot of trouble. A Molex connector would have been a better option.

DUC direct sampling is  progressive and forward thinking, Flex deserves a medal for adopting this technology. They would have  been forced to go this way, everyone knew this except the Flex radio groupies and fanboys.
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2012, 05:10:46 AM »

Gerald kept good to his no free beer commitment.  Notice we now have to pay a $199 yearly extortion fee (I am sure this will be going up) per year for software updates and support.  Software fixes/updates will be coming fast now to keep you paying the yearly fee.  I know good software is not free but not sure if paying yearly fee rather than paying for major updates is the customer friendly way?  However, it does include support so I guess you now can call Dudly and ask a question as long as you paid your money?  Flex radios are now not only Software Define but  shakedown radios. 

Seeing how most of the CPU intensive DSP is offloaded to the TI DSP, software wise you'd be paying for updates to the GUI.  Maybe that fee figures into updates to the radio's firmware also.  Given Flex's track record, I would be quite pissed if I had to pay for a software upgrade to fix bugs that should be fixed for free.

The yearly software fee of $200 SUCKS!  I could see maybe $75 or something in that neighborhood, but not $200.  Since they are charging $200 per year, I am betting that they will not publish the protocol and commands used for the software GUI to communicate with the radio to discourage third party developers.

These new radios will outperform anything else on the Ham market including the K3, and the FTdx-5000D.  Too bad the ADAT was not marketed better.  It would have had multiple year advantage in the Ham market.   With the lowest cost Flex rig selling for $4000, I think the ADAT's price must come down if they want to ever be competitive.

Gone are the days of Flex Radio being a "SDR for the masses".

Gene

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KE5JPP
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2012, 05:15:01 AM »

Flex Ambassador Brian is already selling his Flex-5000a on the Flex mailing list.  Since the lowest price new transceiver from Flex is priced at $4000, it will be hard to justify buying an old, outdated technology Flex-5000a.  There will be a bunch of them on the used market as I predicted.

Gene
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2012, 05:17:11 AM »

Gerald kept good to his no free beer commitment.  Notice we now have to pay a $199 yearly extortion fee (I am sure this will be going up) per year for software updates and support.  Software fixes/updates will be coming fast now to keep you paying the yearly fee.  I know good software is not free but not sure if paying yearly fee rather than paying for major updates is the customer friendly way?  However, it does include support so I guess you now can call Dudly and ask a question as long as you paid your money?  Flex radios are now not only Software Define but  shakedown radios. 

Flex SDR = Shake Down Radios   Grin Grin Grin  Now, that's funny!

Gene

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KE5JPP
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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2012, 05:23:53 AM »

I wonder if the 8  receivers can phase locked to the GPSDO  and be used for  beam steering, single site location DF or correlative interferometer use.

No, because it does not have 8 separate ADCs or 8 separate antenna inputs.  I believe they are probably talking about 8 receivers within the 70 MHz (or so) ADC's bandwidth (all coming from a single antenna input).

They do talk about dual ADCs, so I imagine that you will be able to do limited diversity or beam steering via two separate antenna inputs.

Gene
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 05:25:53 AM by KE5JPP » Logged
KE5JPP
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« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2012, 06:13:28 AM »

Flex Ambassador Brian is already selling his Flex-5000a on the Flex mailing list.  Since the lowest price new transceiver from Flex is priced at $4000, it will be hard to justify buying an old, outdated technology Flex-5000a.  There will be a bunch of them on the used market as I predicted.

Gene


Brian is many things but stupid is not one of them. He is very smart to beat the rush of massive Flexradio 5K sell offs. PSDR is dead, Flexradio is no longer going to develop software that they can not get $$$$ for. In a few years the Flex 5K will just be a bad memory. Flexradio was right. It is a Game Changer for present 5K owners.

K9IUQ

Yeah, but he is selling his 5000a to buy one of the new 6000 series radios.  I guess he has no problem with the $200 yearly Software Extortion Fee from Flex.  He definitely is not stupid, but I don't think jumping on the 6000 series bandwagon at least 6 months before they become available is very smart.

Gene
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HAMMYGUY
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Posts: 109




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« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2012, 11:22:54 AM »

While I don't feel to bad about dropping $1 to $1000 for a radio that I'm really going to use, once the price gets above the $1500 range my squeak factor begins to kick in.   I think Flex is going to find out that the market for this "game changer" is going to be very limited.  There will certainly be a rush by the herd for this new radio, probably even enough to justify the initial production run, but not enough to sustain it.  

It's quite apparent Firewire is dead and the current Flex series will die off pretty quickly.  All except for the 1500 which is a pretty good radio for the money and will work with USB 1.1 or higher.  The next rig will probably be a replacement for the Flex-3000 with the new interface, but will require the $200 software fee per year to keep current.  Which of course will open the door to piracy to avoid the fees.  

I think they've stabbed themselves in the chest with this "game changer" and the market will just twist the blade until the company finally collapses from lack of sales.  
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 11:29:54 AM by HAMMYGUY » Logged
KE5JPP
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2012, 11:44:00 AM »

While I don't feel to bad about dropping $1 to $1000 for a radio that I'm really going to use, once the price gets above the $1500 range my squeak factor begins to kick in.   I think Flex is going to find out that the market for this "game changer" is going to be very limited.  There will certainly be a rush by the herd for this new radio, probably even enough to justify the initial production run, but not enough to sustain it.  

It's quite apparent Firewire is dead and the current Flex series will die off pretty quickly.  All except for the 1500 which is a pretty good radio for the money and will work with USB 1.1 or higher.  The next rig will probably be a replacement for the Flex-3000 with the new interface, but will require the $200 software fee per year to keep current.  Which of course will open the door to piracy to avoid the fees.  

I think they've stabbed themselves in the chest with this "game changer" and the market will just twist the blade until the company finally collapses from lack of sales.  

If you look at Flex's history, once the Flex-5000 was introduced as an "upgrade" to the SDR-1000, the SDR-1000 became the red-headed stepchild.  Flex tried to play down the introduction of the 5000 as "the high end" but behind the scenes they quickly moved as far away from the SDR-1000 users as possible.  I expect the same to happen to the 5000 and 3000 users now that the 6000 series is out of the bag.  I think you are right about the 1500.   Since it is USB and priced on the low end, the sales will continue there.  Its the 5000 and 3000 radios and users that have to worry.  All of Flex's development work will be dedicated to the new 6000 series now (the future).

Gene
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WD5GWY
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Posts: 448




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« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2012, 08:33:55 PM »

I'm a bit curious about all the bashing and general hate directed towards
Flexradio. I can understand that there are people that their products are
not something they want or can use. I have a Flex 1500 and enjoy using
it and it's features. But, I don't see the new series of radios in my future.
I actually enjoy using my old boatanchor radios more than the 1500.
BUT, I don't hate Flex for trying to introduce new products for Amateur
Radio just because the prices are higher than I can afford or justify.
(well, I can afford one IF I wanted to save for a while for one) They have
a right to make a living as any other company does. If they just sat on
their hands and did nothing, they would surely go away. And having another
manufacturer of ham gear go away would be a sad thing to me.
There will be people that can afford it and that is fine by me.
Oh, someone mentioned that there was already a rush to sell the 5000's by
a lot of people........where?? I have seen a total of 3 ads listing 5000's for sale
on the Flex Yahoo group, qrz.com and qth.com. And one of those listings are
from the same person. Not exactly a huge rush to dump the old gear for the
new. (there was one for a 3000 for $1000 on qrz.com that sold within 15 minutes)
So, I might just grab one of those when they start showing up soon.
IF there was to be a rush to sell the older Flex radios, I would think it would be
after the first batch has been shipped to their new owners and people have had
a chance to use them. Once that happens and new owners start bragging about
all the great features, THEN I would expect to see a rush to sell more of the older
rigs.
  james
WD5GWY
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ZENKI
Member

Posts: 1421




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« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2012, 11:42:56 PM »

I dont really understand whats going on with the ADAT marketing department. If I owned the ADAT company I would be at Dayton. ADAT is obviously not serious  about promoting its product to the wider ham population.
Looks like ADAT will fade and blow away with no real commercial success, which is a darn shame.

Anyone see the new Hilberling, whats so good about the Hilberling that they want so much for it? Any specifications or  performance data  released at Dayton?


Gerald kept good to his no free beer commitment.  Notice we now have to pay a $199 yearly extortion fee (I am sure this will be going up) per year for software updates and support.  Software fixes/updates will be coming fast now to keep you paying the yearly fee.  I know good software is not free but not sure if paying yearly fee rather than paying for major updates is the customer friendly way?  However, it does include support so I guess you now can call Dudly and ask a question as long as you paid your money?  Flex radios are now not only Software Define but  shakedown radios. 

Seeing how most of the CPU intensive DSP is offloaded to the TI DSP, software wise you'd be paying for updates to the GUI.  Maybe that fee figures into updates to the radio's firmware also.  Given Flex's track record, I would be quite pissed if I had to pay for a software upgrade to fix bugs that should be fixed for free.

The yearly software fee of $200 SUCKS!  I could see maybe $75 or something in that neighborhood, but not $200.  Since they are charging $200 per year, I am betting that they will not publish the protocol and commands used for the software GUI to communicate with the radio to discourage third party developers.

These new radios will outperform anything else on the Ham market including the K3, and the FTdx-5000D.  Too bad the ADAT was not marketed better.  It would have had multiple year advantage in the Ham market.   With the lowest cost Flex rig selling for $4000, I think the ADAT's price must come down if they want to ever be competitive.

Gone are the days of Flex Radio being a "SDR for the masses".

Gene


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KE5JPP
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2012, 07:38:30 AM »

I'm a bit curious about all the bashing and general hate directed towards
Flexradio.

I guess you see the truth as bashing and hate just like the Flex fanboys do.

Other than the $200 per year Software Extortion Fee, I think that the 6000 series in a very smart and positive move for Flex Radio.  Drop that fee to $100 or less and then I would have no complaints at all.

I am very happy to see that Flex Radio is pushing the envelope in the Ham market.  While there have been quite a few direct sampling receivers available for several years now,  no manufacturer has made a significant dent with a DDC/DUC transceiver for the Ham market.  I suspect that once other big three manufacturers see the extremely high performance of this architecture in the Flex 6000 series, they will be forced to follow suit eventually.  This will be good for all of us by driving costs down and expectations up.  Kudos to Flex for having the balls to do it first!

Gene

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WD5GWY
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Posts: 448




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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2012, 09:04:05 AM »

I'm a bit curious about all the bashing and general hate directed towards
Flexradio.

I guess you see the truth as bashing and hate just like the Flex fanboys do.

Other than the $200 per year Software Extortion Fee, I think that the 6000 series in a very smart and positive move for Flex Radio.  Drop that fee to $100 or less and then I would have no complaints at all.

I am very happy to see that Flex Radio is pushing the envelope in the Ham market.  While there have been quite a few direct sampling receivers available for several years now,  no manufacturer has made a significant dent with a DDC/DUC transceiver for the Ham market.  I suspect that once other big three manufacturers see the extremely high performance of this architecture in the Flex 6000 series, they will be forced to follow suit eventually.  This will be good for all of us by driving costs down and expectations up.  Kudos to Flex for having the balls to do it first!

Gene


  Well, if what I have seen posted previously here and a few other places is nothing
more than the "truth" then maybe you are right.  I wouldn't go so far as to call myself
a "fanboy" but, I certainly am impressed with what my little 1500 does. While it is a
fun radio to play with, I still enjoy the old boatanchor radios more.
  Reading the spec's on the new radios almost boggles the mind with what they say they are capable of doing. I do good just to use one receiver at a time, much less eight!
It will be interesting to see how well they do in the real world and not in a lab.
 I plan to go to HAMCOM in Plano, TX in June, maybe I'll get a chance to see one up
close!
james
WD5GWY

Oh, did you notice that on almost all the different forums, little has been said about
the new Kenwood TS-990? The one and only photo of the display at Dayton that I have seen, shows one inside a clear plastic box. Wonder if it's a mockup?
And Alinco is introducing an SDR radio too. Saw a photo of that one running at Dayton!
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W1EL
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Posts: 35




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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2012, 01:30:46 PM »

Human nature is to view your own opinions and way of looking at the world as "truth".
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