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Author Topic: Anxiety  (Read 18401 times)
VK2FAK
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Posts: 87




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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2012, 06:20:38 PM »

Hi All..

I don't remember reading that he types ...so I will just ask the question....

The only way the program works like that is if you type..

Robert are you typing or using Pad and pen/pencil...

But this is not really about the Program...its about the mental processes..

John
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K5DTE
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2012, 07:14:31 PM »

Wow, the number of responses is amazing!  I never expected so much support and I am very grateful to each of you.   Grin

Sigurd,

Thank you very much for your excellent program!  I use it because of its flexibility, ease of use, and the fact that it adapts to my mistakes.  It seems to me, the ability to adapt to my errors and provide those characters more often provides a more accurate assessment of my progress.  The only addition I would love to see is the ability to track my progress over time, but I can do that manually.

John,

Yes, I type responses back into Sigurd's software and it evaluates my responses in real time and adapts presenting the characters most often missed the most.

Scott,

Thank you for your words of encouragement.  I am still working through what parts of my day practicing best fits in, but I will find time as this is something I am very excited to learn and I find it a challenge.

Rob,

I understand what you mean.  I find that moment exists with each letter.. lol

Charles,

Thank you.  I look forward to getting to that stage.  Callsign practice is what I plan to do after getting comfortable with all of the characters.  Some time practicing callsigns and other times practicing common words is the current plan.

John,

I look forward to reaching that point.  Right now I think my "zoning out" is more of a brain overload.  I have to consciously bring myself back and keep going.   Tongue

73,

Robert
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LB3KB
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2012, 07:24:08 PM »

The only way the program works like that is if you type..

That is simply not true.

All you have to do is input the characters.  This can be done by any input method, e.g. voice recognition or handwriting recognition.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
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LB3KB
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2012, 07:27:36 PM »

The only addition I would love to see is the ability to track my progress over time, but I can do that manually.

That has been implemented in the next version, but I don't know when that version will be ready for release.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
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K5DTE
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2012, 07:36:28 PM »

The only way the program works like that is if you type..

That is simply not true.

All you have to do is input the characters.  This can be done by any input method, e.g. voice recognition or handwriting recognition.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com


I am curious to try voice recognition at some point.  I expect that would most closely simulate "head copy".

Robert
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K5DTE
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2012, 07:37:29 PM »

The only addition I would love to see is the ability to track my progress over time, but I can do that manually.

That has been implemented in the next version, but I don't know when that version will be ready for release.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com

Excellent!  Thanks again for all of your effort.

Robert
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AE5QB
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2012, 03:08:42 AM »

I think you will find that the alphabet characters come fairly quickly.  But remember that when you have all 26 characters down, you are halfway done.  The numbers, punctuation, and pro-signs is where I started getting hung up.  Then you have to get online and learn all of the cw lingo and abbreviations before you can really communicate.  I am not trying to discourage you.  On the contrary, I am having great fun learning CW because I love a challenge and have not set any artificial time limits on myself.  You'll get there, just never give up and have fun with it.  You can do it!
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2012, 04:39:38 AM »



That has been implemented in the next version, but I don't know when that version will be ready for release.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com

First of all: I use your program on a daily basis, thanks for making it.
\However testing and recording progress is pretty difficult. You have to measure errors, and that is where your program sucks.

Demo: I make a text file of 15 words space separated PARIS speed 15 wpm duration 1 minute
I type as response to the morse 15 times SIRAP space separated.
Code:
Result: hits  misses
A          0      15
I          0      15
space      6       8
S          8       7
P         15       0
R         15       0

Bob
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 04:43:46 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
N0BLT
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2012, 08:41:50 AM »

Guys,
     I have grown tired of reading about how to learn CW and decided to start actually doing it!  I am using the "Just Learn Morse Code" program and I am on my fourth letter after my first session using a 20WPM character speed and a 15WPM spacing.
     I get very anxious when going through the exercises, and if I get stuck on a character or doubt my answer, I dwell on it causing me to miss even more characters.  I expect the proper thing to do is just to "let go" and not worry about that lost bit.  
     Does anybody have any alternate suggestions or ideas that might help?
73
Robert


Robert,
     I too am determined I WILL conquer this code thing.  I've been using Just Learn Morse Code program also. THANK YOU SIGURD!
I got up to 8 characters at 20 WPM copying by pencil & paper.  Lots easier to learn it at 20wpm now, rather than 10wpm, then try to speed up later (after knowing all 40 characters)  
     Then I came across a forum thread discussing the merits of loosing the pencil & paper, and instead, copy in the head.  I've become a convert, because I saw my own inability to comprehend what I was writing in real time.  It's like I had an AUTO HAND, that was mindlessly scribbling.  I was way to concerned about writing & not comprehending.  (pencil hand kinda cramped too)
     Isn't comprehending what code is all about?  A poster on this forum said he saw himself doing this with a typewriter, also.  He, being very accurate, but having NO IDEA WHAT the meaning of the text was that he was actually typing.  
     I have had to REALLY SLOW down in learning code, to build my mental buffer not only build my letter recognition, but assemble WORDS in my mind WHILE listening to 4, 5, & 6 letter groups (which are actually words).  Loosing the pencil and using word groups make it much more fun, and give me the ability to copy ANYWHERE, anytime, while listening to my mp3 player.  It seems as though my time expectations have lowered (when I'll be done and on the air), and my code learning has overall drastically slowed!   Oh well, maybe by the time I'm ready to kick the bucket and got arthritis, I'll be ready to have my 20wpm or higher CW QSO's doing QRP.  So what, the learning is fun, and the goal is to not struggle later.
     I took the letters "kmrsuapt" (the ones I knew at 20wpm) and threw in the letter "o" and "e" and put them in a SCRABBLE WORD FINDER and out popped a huge list of words.  I filtered out the obscure ones and mixed them up and came out with...

(I'd recomend NOT throwing in the "e" without really thinking about it tho, because it is a VERY fast letter, and offers you NO TIME to think about it AT ALL)

5 letter
arts  paste  turks  pause  peats  taker  pesto  kraut poems  poets  ramps   makes  poker  prose  pukes  maker   saute  serum   rakes  takes  setup  tamer  mopes  rapes  tames  skate   tamps  parks  taper  parts  tarps  smart  paste  taupe  smear  teaks  metro  pause  teams  smoke  tears  peaks  opera  smote  tempo  sorta  temps  pears  spare  terms  peats  spark  armour  rates  pesto  tears speak  tempo  spear  mares  temps  sperm  reams  terms  poems   proms  kaput   reaps  poets  remap  spoke  spore  sport  mutes  poker  repos  tours  spout  pokes  toker  marks  tramp  spurt  pokes  pores  trams  pores  meats  moats   porks  roams  stake  stamp  ports  karts  roast  stare  pours  tromp  porks  ports romps  stark  peaks  pears  steak  erupt  pouts trump  arose  steam  traps  ropes  stoke  treks  marts  stomp  route  mates  stork  storm  strap  strep  pours  pouts  rumps  prose  strum  stump  pukes  super  mouse  outer  sutra  upset  autos  morse  proms

4 letter
take oaks  rake park ramp part same maps tame make  past mare atom sake pats rums  seam  peak oars taos  sear mark rams tamp mart  stop marst rape pear ears peas raps peat rasp kept  smut tape mask perk mast trek mate seat  auto taps amok tare rate soak  perm mask mast tarp soap trap rats oats mate peso pest east soar rust tusk some mats step meat teak mesa pets task ream sump user reap poem amps team reps sort poet moat eats opts tear repo mope sore mops poke pore  ruts pork rest temp soup roam more arms sour most teas mote port  pose post  term romp sure  apes muse rope musk toes spar ours must spam pots  pour rote  spat pout muse true rots musk spot tope arse oust toke must prom  stem puke pure rout mute tops star muts tour rump puts arts spur outs

7 letter
 muskrat upskirt tourism airpost parties pasteur stamper irksome tempura pastime stomper  pasture impetus stumper pirates imprest posture mistake  primate promise  mortise supremo traipse upraise
6 letter
amuser armies armpit aspire atrium autism eskimo esprit europa impart import impose impost impure impute kaiser kermit market markup masker master mature merits mister moirae mouser muskat musket opiate ouster pastie pastor peoria permit persia pirate poster pouter praise presto priest primus purest purism satire septum skater smoker soaker sortie sprite sprout stoker streak stream strike stripe stroke tamper tapers tempra topeka troupe truism trumps umpire upmost uprise uptake utopia

     I put the above text word files into Just Learn Morse Code program, and generated the audio files. Then I loaded them onto my mp3 player and now LISTEN to them RELIGIOUSLY on my daily bicycle rides.  I really get in the groove much more than sitting at a desk for some reason.  Don't ask me why, but It works and I enjoy it HUGELY.

I have many more word groups using less or more letters if any peeps need them.

Brian

Here is a frequency of use list (from wiki) for each letter of the alphabet by percent...
E12.7% T9.06 A8.17 O7.51 I6.97 N6.75  S6.33  H6.09 R5.99 D4.25  L 4.025  C2.78  U2.76  M2.41 W2.36 F2.23 G 2.015 Y1.97  P1.93 X1.5 B1.49 V.98  K.77 J.15 Q.095 Z.074  
I'm not sure why the various Kotch programs choose the letters "U,M,P, & K" as some of the first to learn, when they don't fall into the higher used common letters. The letter "U" is the least frequently found vowel in the most common words in the English language.

 I can see the "K" as important to hams though, because of its use in callsigns.  If the higher rated words were used (and learned) first (within reason) you could possibly find more words to generate by the online scrabble word finders, and add to a Morse learners audio file.  Doesn't matter much as you have mastered the alphabet.  I'd save the longer letters like "P" for later tho.    Makes you wonder though.  There must be a good reason for the letters used in the progression while learning.  
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:41:49 PM by N0BLT » Logged
M0LEP
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Posts: 220




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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2012, 11:12:17 AM »

The scrabble word finder's a good idea. I'd love to see something like that built in as an option in a morse training program.
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N0BLT
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2012, 12:05:23 PM »

my fave Scrabble word finder site is http://www.scrabbleaword.com/  I think thats the one that lets you put in the most characters at a time.  Important when you want to use 9,10 11, or 12 char's.

http://lcwo.net/  DOES have RANDOM WORD exercises after you have learned 9 characters.  The order of char's is different tho, from "Just Learning Morse Code" program. I like "Just Learning Morse Code"  better cuz I end up making almost all my random word files to study from.  I can optimize them when needed.  I made a file that starts with all words starting in "T", because for some reason, I'd paper/pencil copy my "t"s fine (at 20wpm), but for some reason when head copying "t"s, I think they are "m"s.  So now I have been taking a lot of "T" therapy bicycle rides.  Listening to my file of words starting with T.    turks taker takes tames tamer tamps taper tarps taupe teaks teams tears tempo temps terms teares tempo temps terms tiers timer times tires tours toker tramp trams trike trims tromp trump traps treks tries take time tame trim tike tips taos tamp tape trek taps tare tire tarp trap ties tusk teak task team tier tear trio temp teas trip term toes true tope tops tour team toke
     And lots of words that have t's in them...  stair stake stamp stare stark steak steam stoke stomp stork storm strap strep strip strum stump stop step stir stem star
stair stake stamp stare stark steak steam stoke stomp stork storm strap strep strip strum stump stop step stir stem star arts paste peats pesto kraut poets irate saute omits setup situp moist skate parts skirt smart paste smite metro miter smote emits sorta peats rates pesto   
HA ha, he he!
     It's definitely more frustrating learning to head copy, for the sake of building that mental buffer.  I'm sure in the future I'll be glad I did learn my letters slowly adding one at a time while keeping at 20wpm head copy now, vs being paper/pencil dependant at 10-13wpm and try to speed up later.  Some say it's almost impossible to speed up (from 10wpm) because they never really quit mentally translating dots and dashes as they learned the entire character set.

1st 9 letters taught in each program...
LCWO site...              K M U R E S N A P    
JLMC prog...              K M R S U A P T L    
freq of use in english   E T A O I N S H R    
 
Whole list
LCWO site...   K M U R E S N A P     T L W I  . J  Z = F O Y , V G 5 / Q 9 2 H 3 8 B ? 4 7 C 1 D 6 0 X
Just Learn Morse Code prog...
                   K M R S U A P T L     O W I .  N J  E F 0 Y V , G 5  / Q 9 Z H 3 8 B ? 4 2 7 C 1 D 6 X @ =  sk   ar  as  cl  kn  ka

freq of use in english
                   E T A O I N S H R      D L C U M W F G Y P X B V K J Q Z
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 01:00:39 PM by N0BLT » Logged
LB3KB
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2012, 12:54:12 PM »

\However testing and recording progress is pretty difficult. You have to measure errors, and that is where your program sucks.

Demo: I make a text file of 15 words space separated PARIS speed 15 wpm duration 1 minute
I type as response to the morse 15 times SIRAP space separated.
Code:
Result: hits  misses
A          0      15
I          0      15
space      6       8
S          8       7
P         15       0
R         15       0

Oh yeah ?  And how exactly would you rate that performance yourself ?

Give a step by step procedure.


For your example text and response, Just Learn Morse Code gives you 15 hits on P (100%) and 14 hits on space (100%).  Everything else gets a zero score.


LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 01:03:20 PM by LB3KB » Logged
LB3KB
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2012, 01:16:34 PM »

when you have all 26 characters down, you are halfway done.  The numbers, punctuation, and pro-signs is where I started getting hung up.

That is only problem for people who learn the characters first, and then the numbers.  Sensible learning systems gives you a mix from early on.

Punctuation is hardly used, so that can wait.  Most people only use 2-3 prosigns and they are easy to pick up later on.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
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M0LEP
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2012, 03:41:44 AM »

1st 9 letters taught in each program...
LCWO site...              K M U R E S N A P    
JLMC prog...              K M R S U A P T L    
freq of use in english   E T A O I N S H R

The frequency of use in English is not particularly relevant, given amateur QSOs will contain plenty of abbreviations (like Q codes) and callsigns to skew the distribution. For learning it's far more important to get a balance between usefulness, recognisability and speed. I figure E is far too early in the LCWO progression. When it's introduced it makes the apparent speed leap up. Similarly, but not quite so badly, for T in the G4FON and JLMC sequences.

It's a pity that most of these programs have no option to choose a different sequence. It'd be nice to be able to swap between them, go to lesson 13 (or wherever) and know they were all using the same progression (even if you had to configure that progression yourself first time round).
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NA7U
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2012, 09:53:27 AM »

Quote
<snip for brevity>

It's a pity that most of these programs have no option to choose a different sequence. It'd be nice to be able to swap between them, go to lesson 13 (or wherever) and know they were all using the same progression (even if you had to configure that progression yourself first time round).

That's quite easy to do in G4FON. Simply increment the character count to 40 then go into Settings and all the characters will be there with a checkbox by each one. Just uncheck the ones you don't want to learn. Fully customizable.
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