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Author Topic: how do I install a 24 ft mast without a hole in the ground?  (Read 3943 times)
K7NHB
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Posts: 226




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« on: May 24, 2012, 05:09:31 PM »

I'd like put a 24 ft mast on the patio where two sides of the house eaves come together at 90 degrees at 20 feet. That is, the mast, holding only a 2 meter vertical about 5 feet long, can connect to the eave at about 20 ft. But what to do with the base?

I can't drill into the concrete patio pad (XYL issues). I thought about getting a 5 gal. bucket, putting the mast patio end in it and filling with the bucket with sand - should weigh over 50 lb. A friend said he be worried about rust when the bucket/sand got wet. At 65 years old, I figure I'll "rust out" before the galvanized steel will. I could even put it in a PVC jacket for a little more protection.

I figured I'd put the mast at the junction of the two house sides, but I could also put it on one side with the end of the mast setting in the well of the vents at the base of the house. That is, along the house edge of the patio there are these wells about a foot deep that have vents with a plastic door we close during winter. If I dropped the end of the mast in that well, it wouldn't "kick out". But the mast itself would be more prominent that if it lived in the nearly invisible, unused corner space.

I could get some wood and have one end "grab" that vent well and have a hole at the other end that the mast sits in. Two of those boards at 90 degrees to each other (a well on each side), both with the non-mast end anchored in the vent well would also keep the mast base from kicking out.

But a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand tucked in a corner with very little force against it seems simple.

What do you think?

73,
Paul, K7NHB

PS: once I needed a quickie 10 ft mast for the same 2M vertical. I took two piece of string and my staple gun and held the mast against the garage eave (different house) with those two pieces of string. I figured I'd put a proper metal bracket up later but after two years, the string was still holding fine. But this would not be 10 ft falling on the ground. This would be 24 ft (plus Ant) falling in the flower garden or across a fence. And the 10 ft mast was bottomed out in grabby grass, not mast slippery and scratch-able patio concrete.
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2012, 05:52:42 PM »

Since you have to place it on top of the concrete, why don't you try an outdoor plastic coated umbrella weight with the hole in the center? With a 24 foot braced mast and a lightweight 2 meter antenna, that should work fine. If you need any more assurance, guy it with black nylon cord.  Wink
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 05:54:28 PM by KI4SDY » Logged
K7NHB
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Posts: 226




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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2012, 07:44:06 PM »

KI4SDY,
Thank you. with summer time approaching, I'm betting such things will be on sale often. I'll keep a lookout. Given the very low wind resistance and bonding to the eave near the top, I'm sure that will be fine....If putting it in the corner allows for the radius of the umbrella base.
73,
Paul
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N4DOV
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2012, 07:49:26 PM »

Use angle iron or superstrut iron to attach to wall at/near base, or get a plantar/rainbarrel and put base in with stones and grow a few plants to make it "prettier".
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W6CD
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2012, 09:18:21 PM »

I have a 18' pipe holding up a GAP Titan.  Anchored to the house with one of those inexpensive TV mast house brackets.  The bottom is held in place by slipping it over a piece of rebar driven into the ground.  Is very solid and has been up for a few years.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5807




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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2012, 05:20:54 AM »

One thing you may do to try to placate the XYL is to get a half of a barrel--a wooden barrel cut in half--that could serve as both an anchor point for your mast, a planter so she could plant some flowers, (or even some fake ones) and as another 'selling' point, you could cut a couple of short shelves and attach them to the barrel so they could serve as 'end tables' where guests could put their drinks/plates when you were entertaining.

Such a barrel would be a very weighty thing, you could rest assured that it wouldn't move and endanger your mast, AND it would look nice--placating your XYL!
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12638




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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2012, 05:41:38 AM »

How about a plastic bucket filled with concrete. It won't rust and you don't have to worry about wet sand.
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WB6BYU
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Posts: 12974




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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2012, 08:45:36 AM »

The base needs to do two things:  support the downward weight of the mast, and prevent
the base from moving sideways when the wind blows on the top part.

The concrete patio should be sufficient to support a light mast, so the only thing you need
to do is to keep it in place.  A few cinder block bricks with holes through them should do
the job - stack them up, then drop the mast though the hole in the center.  A metal or
concrete plate with a peg sticking up through it should also work as long as there is
enough friction between it and the patio.  A piece of 2x4 with a hole in it to past the
mast is probably adequate if there is enough weight on the board to keep it from sliding.
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 07:29:39 AM »

Ugly ideas are the reason wives hate ham radio!  Wink
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1612




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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 07:58:07 AM »

  KI4SDY's solution is a very popular use for theses bases,they can be found at yard sales or your local landfill set aside or recyling center for free or a dollar or two.Mine is set inside a shallow mexican motif planter from Agway,xyl planted low flowers and some kind of vine flower that goes up mast.Results are that we are both happy and other than us only the Shadow knows.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 08:12:08 AM by W1JKA » Logged
W4VR
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 08:58:58 AM »

I know a fellow in town who uses a wooden spool about 3 feet in diameter that he picked up from the power company's empty wire spool lot.  It's heavy and has a hole in the middle to insert your antenna.  Ron, w4vr
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N4RSS
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Posts: 258




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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2012, 12:49:13 PM »

Why do you need a 20 ft mast at all.  You're only going 9 ft over the eaves to the top of the antenna, which is very light. You should be able to attach a bracket directly to the eaves somehow and should be sufficient for the load
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K1ZJH
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Posts: 884




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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2012, 03:00:07 PM »

Having it sit on a pin that passes through the concrete into the earth would be the ideal method.

Pete
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W3HKK
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Posts: 593




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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2012, 09:22:33 AM »

Like the umbrella base idea, and the pin.  Drill a half inch hole and drive a standard 4 ft rebar into it. Then when all is said and done,  and you take down the antenna/mast,  you can caulk up the hole with cementiious material and never see it.
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K7NHB
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Posts: 226




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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 01:47:51 PM »

Thank you all for your suggestions. Drilling is not an option. And I need to be able to remove is if I loose the "war". That is, the 1996 FCC ruling that trumps HOA/CCR's is only for a TV mast. I'm hoping they will realize a very demure mast with a 2M vertical is a lot less visual than a log periodic TV Ant sticking up 12 above the roofline.

I found a plastic umbrella base at Home Depot for $13.00 and 50lb of sand for $2.50. The stand seems to claim it will take 50 lbs of sand> Hard to believe but when I get back I'll try it. That is plenty to hold the base.

I agree that a bracket SHOULD be enough to hold the 2M vertical but if I am wrong, I would be really wrong. Also the mast would most likely have a dual purpose.

The flower base is a great ideal if it were just XYL appeasement. After all, didn't I read a study that said a little proximity RF is good for plant growth. But for now this has to be moveable.

If anyone else is thinking of this, I almost went with a series of weight plates sold at H.D. for the same purpose. Totaling the plastic base and sand, the plates would have only been a few dollars more - but I was wired in to the first idea; and i liked the wider plastic base (which can be painted "disappear" flat black).

73,
Paul
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