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Author Topic: Arm ache with sending practice  (Read 5686 times)
PA0BLAH
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2012, 08:14:31 AM »

Sounds like you are figuring things out John. Many years ago when I learned the code the only straight-key method I ever heard about was the American-elbow-on-the-table.

When I returned to ham radio, and CW, fifty years hence, about two years ago, I inadvertently came into possession a fine key with the knob set relatively high off the table which was designed to be used the way the rest of the world uses a straight key.

Since then, I've adoped the Unamerican style and I think it's far more useful ergonomically. One uses more, and several larger, muscle groups than doing the straight-key dance al Americano.

Wise words, I remember being in Rochester NY, where they showed lilac "the largest display of flowers in the world"
I then decided, long ago, that "the world" must be the USA and nothing else, in their eyes.

Just look around, look at the USA performance in HST (high speed telegraphy) and the rest of the world and take your lessons.  Look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMFp1P8Qhsg

The Junker key is low flat knob, excellent German designed key, but guys used to use an egg knob camel key fall back in speed from 30 to max 25 wpm.

There are more more or less stupid things. So the military required you to give up all your personality, not only by uniform and hair cut, or cut hair, but also the way you have to write. All required in order to use you as a tool in the war game, That is a way you can maximal  reach a speed of 17 wpm. When the speed is faster you have to use a mill. Look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQj74Y2H8xQ&feature=related
A model exactly military guy,  with a bunch of color coded resistors on the breast in order to indicate his supposed importance.

Pity for all the amateurs that compete at hamfests and have to hand in their hand writing. K7QO did it another way and as a youngster wrote 40 wpm on hamfests. Not the "military" depersonalized way, hence.

May we that was better for the chain: copy encrypted groups, hand them over to a deciphering dept. Not for amateurs working with plain text. But one error makes a good encrypted file undeciperable, So you better limit your alphabet, and so the numbergroup transmitters were born.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 08:45:50 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
VA7CPC
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Posts: 2357




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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2012, 10:42:33 PM »

....

So Back to the key about 2in from the front of the Table....I found a grip that works, probably unconventional...but hey....no rules to this, as mentioned what works and what is comfortable....I also changed the small disc on the key to a Door knob style...more grip...not that I actually grip it. just wider positioning of the fingers.

I would really like to get the straight key thing working right, and in use for a while and maybe later look at other options.....maybe.

So far this is working ok....no tiredness in the arm..and can run at around 17-18wpm and more important, the FLDigi can decode what I am sending...so timing must be very reasonable....so I think I am on track..

John

If fldigi can understand you, you're sending better than a lot of other straight-key guys --  Congratulations!

I think you've re-discovered "Continental posture".  Check out "The Art and Skill of RadioTelegraphy":

http://www.qsl.net/n9bor/n0hff.htm

for a discussion.    [That's if my memory is still working.]

            Charles

I just had a funny thought:

. . . If the first key had been a sideswiper, would we have developed bugs and paddles?

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VA7CPC
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2012, 10:59:34 PM »

Memory still functions.   Around page 75 of "Art and Skill . . . " . . .

          charles
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STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 854




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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2012, 01:03:44 AM »

That posture, key placement, and doorknob grip is also what was typically used on merchant ships.
So John, don't worry that you are doing something unconventional, you are following a long line of ships sparky's operating posture.

73 - Rob

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PA0WV
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Posts: 94




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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »

[] doorknob grip []
73 - Rob


Ever seen an European doorknob, Rob?  I can't hardly imagine to play QRQ on a straight key with  a doorknob. But you never know.
So a French toilet (mans room) is an unbelievable stinking hole in the ground, with two ceramic footprints left and right your shoes are supposed to be placed in, while your pants are on your heels. Have a nice holiday in France and think about Hollande.

Wim
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 08:31:21 AM by PA0WV » Logged
K8AXW
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Posts: 3651




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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2012, 10:25:04 AM »

Quote
So a French toilet (mans room) is an unbelievable stinking hole in the ground, with two ceramic footprints left and right your shoes are supposed to be placed in, while your pants are on your heels. Have a nice holiday in France and think about Hollande.

Wim

Wim, I know this doesn't have anything to do with the question(s) posted here (and I apologize to the rest reading this thread) but your comment left me breathless! 

I was in Germany during 54-55-56 and encountered the very thing you described many times.  Fast forward to 1993 and I was in France (Paris of all places!) and after telling myself "Don't drink the water," I did.  And I got a case of the GIs so bad that I thought I was going to explode.

I was in a restaurant at the time and went very quickly to the restroom and sure enough there was the system you described!  This, almost 40 years later!  The sewer drain, which is located behind the two "footprints" you describe had no trap and the sewer gas was so bad it felt like acid burning my face and eyes.  I simply couldn't go there.... no matter what!

After returning to my table the pressure continued to build to the point that it was either the restroom or my pants.  I go back to the restroom and assume the position, which is a semi-squat, holding my pants off the floor and being the typical man, even under this stress, made a concerted effort to see if I could "hit the hole."  Once I calibrated my aimer, I relaxed and the sound was like slapping a horse on the flank! And then complete relief, a feeling like no other.

I looked at the hole and saw....nothing!  I thought that I had a slam dunk for the first time in using of of these facilities.  The slight recoil should have told me otherwise.

Then my attention was distracted to a point higher up and there it was!  A big round splotch approximately 3 feet in diameter hanging on the wall about 2 feet off the floor!  It looked like brown stucco. 

I wouldn't be afraid to bet that it's still there!
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STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 854




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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2012, 12:52:58 PM »

[] doorknob grip []
73 - Rob


Ever seen an European doorknob, Rob?  I can't hardly imagine to play QRQ on a straight key with  a doorknob. But you never know.
So a French toilet (mans room) is an unbelievable stinking hole in the ground, with two ceramic footprints left and right your shoes are supposed to be placed in, while your pants are on your heels. Have a nice holiday in France and think about Hollande.

Wim

Hi Wim,

I must admit to never having seen a European doorknob in person, but I am hoping to go on a tour some day.
I understand about the toilet types you mention, they are standard "plumbing" in many places in the world.
In some cases, to keep flies away, kerosene (or even gas/petrol) is thrown in.
In those cases, you better take those "no smoking" signs seriously, otherwise you may have a flaming good time.

Up till when I was a teenager, our toilet was an outhouse, complete with black widow spiders, snakes and various
other visitors.
A midnight run to the toilet meant navigating through the snakes soaking up the warmth of the concrete path.

So, it may seem nasty, but two ceramic footprints and a hole in the ground seems pretty ok with me.
 
K8AXW, remind me not to take you to any restaurants I want to go back to in the future (HI).

73 - Rob

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K7KBN
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Posts: 2763




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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2012, 07:17:23 PM »

Speaking of Hollande ... http://www.urinal.net/schiphol/

A friend of mine told me about these, and in 2000, when I passed through Amsterdam on my way to Bahrain, I saw them!  Give a man a task...
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
K8AXW
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Posts: 3651




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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2012, 08:49:21 PM »

Rob:  I had no intention of returning to that particular restaurant!  Although I don't speak French, I'm sure I would recognize the French words for "get the hell out of here!"

Here in WV there are two things ya take with you to the outhouse.  They are a light and a gun!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 08:52:22 PM by K8AXW » Logged
K8AG
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Posts: 349




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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2012, 11:50:46 AM »

Support your sending elbow at the operating position.  I have worked with many colleagues who complained of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.  I work as a programmer and spend a lot of time using a mouse.  Many times they are working at the front edge of a work surface.  I suggest that they push the keyboard and mouse back and support their elbow.  Many of them are simply cured by this.

I definitely em NOT a doctor (nor do I play one on TV).  But this has worked for me and a lot of my friends.  Try it.

73, JP, K8AG
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12672




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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2012, 12:17:00 PM »

The arm should be supported. The wrist should be doing all the action. Usually the wrist will get sore until you get used to it.
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VK2FAK
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Posts: 87




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« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2012, 11:11:15 PM »

hi Guys.....

Lets not confuse RSI that comes with Typing ,with the Carpal Tunnel.....my understanding is there very different...

At the moment...my arm goes down with the forearm have a small rise to the Key a little less that 90 deg bend....the wrist is doing the work...the fingers just hold on for the ride...

John
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