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Author Topic: Censorship on eham  (Read 20362 times)
EI4GMB
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Posts: 166




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« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2012, 01:19:23 PM »

Quote
Judging by some of the responses here it seems that those who are complaining know exactly why their posts are being moderated. Maybe, it is time to be a little more self-critical about what we post and stop blaming the moderators!

I can't say that after reading all of the messages in this thread that I have seen information that would lead me to believe that the people that had posts removed know why.  I actually came to the opposite conclusion, that they don't know why, which is why they are upset.  Would you care to share specifically what it is that caused you to arrive at the conclusion that you did?

I suggest you read the posts more carefully. The complainants allude to why they feel their posts were moderated and I agree. Most people value their experience here on eHam because it is free from the usual trashing that goes on, on other sites. Moreover there is a better class of Ham here. I for one sure hope it stays that way! Besides, at the end of the day if your not happy there is always another forum that will allow you to say and do what you please. But this aint it!

73,

Fred EI4GMB
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 01:57:03 PM by EI4GMB » Logged

'You can never plan the future by the past'

'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
K9IUQ
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Posts: 1667




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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2012, 01:53:46 PM »

The complainants allude to why they feel their posts were moderated and I agree.

Most people value their experience here on eHam because it is free from the usual trashing that goes on, on other sites. Moreover there is a better class of Ham here.

The only way I would know why a post was censored (deleted) would be if the moderator would inform me.

Your latter comments are laughable. Are you a newbie? How long have you been using eham?

Stan K9IUQ
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NK7Z
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Posts: 753


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« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2012, 03:57:34 PM »

Quote
I suggest you read the posts more carefully. The complainants allude to why they feel their posts were moderated and I agree. Most people value their experience here on eHam because it is free from the usual trashing that goes on, on other sites. Moreover there is a better class of Ham here. I for one sure hope it stays that way! Besides, at the end of the day if your not happy there is always another forum that will allow you to say and do what you please. But this aint it!

73,

Fred EI4GMB

Hello Fred,
Where EXACTLY is the allusion that I am aware of the reason for any moderation?  Are you a moderator?  You appear to be stating policy as if it is a given you have the inside track on why all of this is happening.

I am unsure how to respond to the "better class of ham" statement at all...  I suspect that the lessor classes of hams might take great offence to that sort of elitism.

Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net
 
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
N4NYY
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Posts: 4746




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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2012, 04:41:58 PM »

Judging by some of the responses here it seems that those who are complaining know exactly why their posts are being moderated. Maybe, it is time to be a little more self-critical about what we post and stop blaming the moderators! Wink

73,

Fred EI4GMB

Not quite. I do not have a problem with them censoring me if I get personal, and call someone a name. I have done it, and they have removed it, and rightfully so. But they have also removed posts that they felt did not offer anything to the thread. In one case, they censored and removed one post from a person here, then he complained, and they try to restore it like nothing happened, and only posted part of the original quote. It was highly embarrassing. To make matter worse, if was during that time where eham has that black ribbon on its logo to protest that censorship law that was in front of congress.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5982




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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2012, 03:56:48 AM »

OH yes. Always Go with the majority view. Never have a differing view from anyone. Agree with everyone and do not rock the boat.
You will never be moderated.

That isn't what was said, Stan, and you know it.  Go ahead and disagree--BUT--do so politely and consider what you say before you hit that 'post' button.  I've always thought that one simple test suffices for what you're going to say--would you say it to your mother (although I haven't had that opportunity for 40+ years) or at the dinner table in front of guests?  If you wouldn't, then why would you want to post it here?
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K1CJS
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2012, 04:15:36 AM »

If you want to come here to lambaste everyone and everything, you deserve what you get.  Try to be polite and look at things from the other point of view before you post, and I doubt that you'll ever have any trouble here.  Just my .02, non-inflation adjusted!
Why assume that a good lambasting happened?  My post was a simple note and link to a review, which was pretty fair, I think...  It however was moderated out with no reason given.

OK Dave, I see your point there.  Consider this, however--What if the review--or the reviewer--that was referred to was the subject of some prior problem on this site?  If that were the case and the reviewer were banned, (yes, I believe that has happened)  do you think the website admins were within their rights to remove it?  Just food for thought.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2012, 04:21:58 AM »

OK, I see the point that is trying to be made here--the failure of the admins to notify a poster if their posts are removed.  There is something else to be considered, though.  The complainants computer system, its connection to the net, (the ISP) and just maybe the internet itself.  Sometimes, for no reason, things just don't go right--posts never make it to the board.  Maybe computer keys or mouse buttons are being pushed too fast, maybe there is a compatibility problem with the software or equipment, and maybe the poster isn't checking their just made post to be sure it made it to the board.  These things happen too. 

Now, I'm not saying that that is the reason behind every missing post, but it IS something to consider.

My satellite TV feed went out this past weekend, and I spent close to an hour trying to find a fault in the dish, cabling and or receiver that I have.  Everything seemed to be OK, but still no signal.  Then it suddenly came back on.  I found out later, when I called the service center to hook up a new receiver, that the uplink from the transmission center was down for over two hours that day--and that people were calling the service center complaining that they've paid their bill, but had no TV service.

The point is that before you blame everything on the people whose service you are using, check your end and the go between--if you can.  Maybe the problem isn't where you think it is.  73!
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2012, 09:12:37 AM »

I thought I would wait for a while and let most of the eHam.net regulars post their expected remarks again, before I commented on this ongoing injustice. If something is not fair for one, it is not fair for anyone. For a complete comprehensive review of this problem, please read the previous string entitled "eHam Moderation" from March 8, 2012 and note the suggestions I made then.  Wink

It is interesting, and gratifying to know, that the eHam.net community is coming to the same conclusion that I did, long ago. That moderation on eHam.net is not being handled in an equitable manner. I guess this proves that I was, in fact, the "enlightened" one! Grin

The root of the problem is that people will be people. They have biases and favorites. Unfortunately that plays over into the moderation on eHam.net. It is something that should be expected as human nature and it should not be a surprise to those who are educated in social science.  Shocked

So how do you overcome human tendencies not to be fair with everyone? Very simple! Just like I proposed before and other victims of the system are asking for now, eHam.net needs to have the rules posted for everyone to read and they must engage in fair and effective moderation, using those rules as guide. Then there will not be a need to notify anyone why their post was removed. They would already be placed on notice in advance.  Kiss

There are those who have and will attack this simple and logical solution, but I am sure the rest of you realize that they are part of the problem. These "flamers and then complainers" are just trying to protect their turf, where they feel safe to harass others. Sad  
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 10:09:50 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
K9IUQ
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Posts: 1667




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« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2012, 09:38:47 AM »


If something is not fair for one, it is not fair for anyone.

That moderation on eHam.net is not being handled in an equitable manner.

The root of the problem is that people will be people. They have biases and favorites.

eHam.net needs to have the rules posted for everyone to read and they must engage in fair and effective moderation, using those rules as guide.

All of the above quotes are excellent. As noted it has been hashed over and over before. It is interesting and damning that no Forum Moderator has stepped up to the plate in this discussion and told eham's view on censorship.

They can run eham forums anyway they want. I can spend my eham subscription $$$ elswhere.

Stan K9IUQ

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AC5UP
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« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2012, 11:16:01 AM »

http://agilemindstorm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Dead-Horse-Theory.jpg
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Never change a password on a Friday                
N9RO
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« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2012, 11:37:51 AM »

I would NOT pay eHam a dime!  They sell advertisements and subscriptions but yet rely on volunteers to operate, what a money making machine for a few.   I would guess the lack of professional moderation could be attributed to that?

Tim - N9RO
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Real techies don't use knobs.
K9IUQ
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Posts: 1667




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« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2012, 12:00:48 PM »

rely on volunteers to operate,

I would guess the lack of professional moderation could be attributed to that?

Tim - N9RO


Tim, you just said what I have been thinking for sometime. They are not getting any more of my dimes and I am thinking of turning on AD Block for eham and eliminate their advertisements too....

Stan K9IUQ
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EI4GMB
Member

Posts: 166




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« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2012, 02:32:13 PM »

Frequently I get sworn at and I get called names all the time.
Stan K9IUQ
So what are you doing to engender such a response? My guess is you are probably causing offense!

If eHam does not want me to post links to outside reviews...
Dave
NK7C
Seems you have a cheek! After all you are linking to a blog that is competing directly with the reviews section of eHam!

As I said maybe it is time to be a little more self-critical about what we post instead of blaming the moderators! Wink

73,

Fred EI4GMB
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 02:34:59 PM by EI4GMB » Logged

'You can never plan the future by the past'

'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1667




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« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2012, 05:46:04 PM »

So what are you doing to engender such a response? My guess is you are probably causing offense!

No doubt. Owners of Flexradios find my truthful facts and views differ from theirs....   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
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NA4M
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Posts: 61




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« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2012, 06:18:28 PM »

eHam.net needs to have the rules posted for everyone to read and they must engage in fair and effective moderation, using those rules as guide. Then there will not be a need to notify anyone why their post was removed. They would already be placed on notice in advance.  Kiss

Posting "the rules" is a noble idea.   

However, in practice it falls short.   Case in point.   There have been "rules" or product review guide lines publicly posted for many years.  These rules/guide lines are our basis for fair and effective screening of reviews.

But given the number of reviews that continue to have to be regularly removed for not following these posted rules only shows that as stated "people are people".  They either don't bother to look around the site to see if there are rules, or they find the rules but don't read them, or they read the rules and then ignore them and post what they want anyway.  Then they ask "why was my review removed"?    The volume of review removals remains way more than allows for an individual personalized explanation of which published rule they didn't follow for each review removed.

So posting "rules" is no panacea given human nature.

Why would posted Forum rules be treated any differently?

73 Phil NA4M
eHam Product Reviews Manager  (but not Forums manager!)
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