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Author Topic: Do Not Use A CW Tone To Tune  (Read 1682 times)
KG6WLS
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Posts: 507




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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2007, 10:15:13 AM »

<<They'll get that call sign and then - the black suits, black ties, and black sun glasses will come knocking on your door.>>





Ahhh, the "Men In Black". Very funny movie...
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N3EF
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Posts: 247




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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2007, 01:32:44 PM »

"So what am I missing here??
Scott N0IU"

  You're missing the whole point of his original post. Then you go on to insinuate that his copy speed is 5wpm or less. How did you deduce that? I agree with him as I hear people tuning up on top of a qso in progress all the time. Nit-wits!

Eric N3EF
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N0IU
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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2007, 02:36:24 PM »

How did I deduce that? From his own QRZ bio:

"I recently passed my code test on 1/16/07...

I really like CW but I am woefully slow at it and my copy is worse than my send."

By his own admission, he is woefully slow.

He was the one who said that he was not able to copy the offending station's callsign in his original post. Later, he denied that he had mentioned anything about his ability to copy code in a later post.

All I did was remind him of the fact that he did indeed mention it... that's all.

Scott N0IU
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N3EF
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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2007, 05:41:14 PM »

  His bio was last modified on Feb 28. If he's been working on his cw since then, I would deduce that he is no longer woefully slow. He did not deny that he had mentioned anything about his ability to copy code. He merely stated that it was not an issue in his first posting. Issue: a point in question or a matter that is in dispute.

Eric N3EF
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KE5HJO
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Posts: 207




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« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2007, 08:27:26 PM »

<<"His bio was last modified on Feb 28. If he's been working on his cw since then, I would deduce that he is no longer woefully slow. He did not deny that he had mentioned anything about his ability to copy code. He merely stated that it was not an issue in his first posting. Issue: a point in question or a matter that is in dispute.">>

Thanks Eric, I could not have said it better.  But, for the sake of conversation I'm not ashamed ot 5 wpm code speed nor should anyone else be.  I'm not getting a grade on it.  It's for fun.  Entertainment. Personal enjoyment.  A lot of people QSO'd with me at 5 WPM even though they could send much faster.  "Thanks" to all those who did.

Eric, you are correct.  My copy speed has improved to a whopping 15 wpm but I can send about 20 wpm. I can't copy very well at that speed so I usually stick to 15 wpm or less.  I work with G4FON software as often as I can for practice as well as podcasts for listening whilst at work.  I'd like to eventually get to 20 wpm.

So Scott, I've no idea how this thread got off on this tangent but hopefully that will quail your curosity.  And, I hope you enjoyed my bio as much as I enjoyed yours. FYI - I typed my bio at 40 wpm.  "Yeah Baby" [..said like Austin Powers]- I'm that fast!

Now, back on topic - thanks for all the great tips my fellow hams.  I'll certainly try them on my next QSO should I run into this problem again.  I understand that the offending station may not be able to hear my QSO and that sometimes QRM will happen.  I'll try the "Up 2" trick as well.  

Thanks again!

Mike
 


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N2EY
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2007, 07:35:50 AM »

"(1) N2EY asked "Then how am I supposed to tune up my rig?"

"Answer:

I can only suggest that you do what I do. I listen for a clear spot in the band then start calling CQ or in morse code - sending CQ."

As I stated before, I *always* listen first. But the fact that I can't hear anyone on the frequency doesn't mean it's not in use. Skip zone and all that.

However:

Once I find what appears to be a clear spot, I have to tune up the rig *before* calling CQ, sending QRL? or anything else. I can't transmit with a rig that's not tuned up.

"Once I find a tuning point I enter my settings into an excel spread sheet for reference. I now have enough set points recorded where I do not need to tune while sending CQ. I already know what my points are."

I've done that too, except I use paper. No computer in my shack.

But presetting the controls is only approximate. The rig still needs a quick touch-up in order to be sure everything is in order. The quickest way to do that is to close the key and *quickly* make sure all the settings are correct. Sometimes a setting changes with the weather or other factor.

Getting those initial tuning settings requires a bit of time tuning *with a CW tone*, as well.

"I do this to prevent unintentional interference. It is very easy to do."

I know, I've been doing it for almost 40 years.

But I still have to use a "CW tone" to tune.

So let's recap:

The way I've been tuning up for all that time is like this:

1) Tune around and listen for a clear spot.

2) Preset all controls to previously-recorded settings

3) Close the key and *quickly* verify that the various settings are correct. (This requires using "a CW tone to tune")

4) Listen again to see if the frequency is still clear.

5) Send "QRL?" or better yet "didit dit" to see if anyine is one frequency.

6) Call CQ.

That's how I've always done it. What should I be doing differently?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N2EY
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2007, 07:43:02 AM »

One more point:

Some folks don't have sharp CW filters in their rigs, or have them and don't use them. And some folks have them and use them. Some modern filters are very very good, with excellent shape factors that make even the strongest signals outside the passband just disappear.

If Ham #1 is operating with, say, a 400 Hz wide filter, and tunes through the band, s/he may find a frequency that sounds perfectly clear. However, if Ham #2 is operating on a nearby frequency with, say, a 2700 Hz wide filter, s/he may experience harmful but unintentional interference from Ham #1.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KB9CRY
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2007, 09:23:40 AM »

Tuning an amp into a dummy load is great IF you happen to have an antenna that is exactly 50 ohms resistive like the dummy load.


Otherwise you'll at least have to do a final "touch up" on the real antenna.


Well, that depends on how far out of resonance your antenna is.  Right.  

Lot's of folks go nuts over getting is just so and many of them are the QRMers we hear.  

Personally I never retune my amp (main rig doesn't tuning) when I switch to the antenna; the tube amp handles some degree of mismatch just fine.
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AA4PB
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2007, 01:22:09 PM »

if Ham #2 is operating on a nearby frequency with, say, a 2700 Hz wide filter
----------------------------------------------------
My favorite gripe :-) Someone operates a narrow mode like CW or RTTY with a wide SSB filter. You call CQ on a perfectly clear frequency and are accused of QRMing their QSO which is going on 2KHz up the band.

Receiver filters need to be reasonably matched to the operating mode.
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N5XM
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Posts: 242




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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2007, 11:04:41 AM »

This is a good question actually.  Mike, I'm just glad to know you enjoy CW enough to be making QSOs.  Your lack of experience is made up for by your enthusiasm.  Some of this same stuff bothered me as I began to get experience on the CW sub-bands.  After almost 10 years of doing CW now, I understand things better, and I would bet large dollars so will you, as time passes.  Keep up the good work!
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W5RKL
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2007, 09:26:38 AM »

I agree that "QRL?" should be sent to ensure one is not interferring with anyone else.

DSP and other filtering in todays equipment do an excellent job of removing QRM. However, if a "QRL?" is sent and the requesting stations frequency is off frequency enough where the "YES" response is not heard, filtered out by DSP filter etc, this can create a problem. Simply switch off any CW filters, send "QRL?" a couple of times, and wait for a response. If nothing is heard then one can assume the frequency is unoccupied.

It also needs to be mentioned that responding too quickly to a "QRL?" statement may not allow the requesting station's equipment to switch back to receive. Simply wait a second before responding to give the requesting station's equipment time to switch back.

Band conditions these days change quite rapidly. A station or QSO may be heard one minute but not the next. Listening first for a couple of minutes can eliminate or greatly reduce these types of problems.


73's
Mike W5RKL
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SFD301
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Posts: 38




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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2007, 12:28:16 PM »

Don't see it as a major problem, but that is just my opinion.   I agree that there are those making it worse by tuning forever instead of getting close by tuning while listening.   What is a constant problem is tuning up on freq. without listening, or knowing a net is there and tuning up for it anyway!!!!!!  Go up a couple and tune up, courtesy.

geo
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KE3WD
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2007, 06:09:16 PM »

You don't have to tune the doggone radio to the exact freq of the QSO.  

Move.  

Find a clear spot nearby, then tune up.  

It won't make one bit of difference to tune a few -- or more! -- KCs away from the QSO.  

QRL?


KE3WD
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W2SXK
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2007, 11:28:41 PM »

I run a FT-840 normally when on the air but then again how do I dip the plate and tune my DX-20 or my homebrew 6146 x-mitter to match my antenna? I listen first, and then listen again for a few minutes, then I will tune as quick as possible, and ID ofcourse like I am supposed to do. Been doing it this way for years. Never had a problem. Again, listen for a while. Most of the time I answer CQ's instead of calling CQ.

73,
Steve - W2SXK / Hudson Vally Region, New York
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