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Author Topic: Tuning & Station Identification  (Read 3498 times)
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13139




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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 03:03:06 PM »

Quote from: K3SGB
...And since we had ID'ed (actually multiple times) within the last 10 minutes (on the same frequency, BTW), therein lies the gray area.


Actually, whether or not you had IDed on the frequency beforehand doesn't matter. The
question is, did you ID within 10 minutes afterwards, in the course of making further
contacts on that frequency.

If you tuned and didn't say anything further for 9 1/2 minutes before IDing, then I'd say you
should have IDed, because that was reasonably the end of the transmission.  But if you called
CQ a couple minutes afterwards, that is sufficient ID for the tuning transmission.


At the people level, there are two issues:  one is recognizing whether or not it is a rule
violation, and the second is how much of a deal to make about it.  Both are important
for newcomers to learn and understand.  We all make mistakes occasionally - forget to
ID in time (or the rig blows a fuse before we ID), or accidentally transmit with the VFO in
the wrong band segment, or whatever.  Yes, that's against the rules.  No, you won't
loose your license over an accident like that.  The point is to recognize it and learn
to be more careful next time.  The point is not to do it intentionally, and to minimize
the accidents.  FCC enforcement is limited to those who intentionally flaunt the rules.
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W9KDX
Member

Posts: 770




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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2012, 05:07:33 PM »

Well, given that it is the rule, I guess after I spend the 3 seconds tuning the linear at 800 watts, on an unused frequency since I NEVER tune on a frequency that is the one I want to use as there are hams there half the time, I'll drop down to 5 watts and send my call, hoping no one comes back, as I will then be re-tuning back to the frequency I want to actually be on.  Kind of silly but I guess rules are rules.

I suppose if I want to be efficient, I will pre-record my call on very fast CW and just hit the send button.



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Sam
W9KDX
WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 13139




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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 08:42:47 PM »

20 WPM maximum according to 97.119(b)(1).

But you could record your callsign in RTTY and use it to tune your amp.
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K8AXW
Member

Posts: 3738




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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2012, 09:31:15 PM »

RE: New ham's interpretaion....

Two workplace sayings come to mind.  1-A new broom always sweeps clean.
                                                   
                                                     2-He sounds like a sh..house lawyer.

Someone here mentioned common sense.  Go with that!
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K3SGB
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2012, 05:40:08 AM »

...  And since we had ID'ed (actually multiple times) within the last 10 minutes (on the same frequency, BTW), therein lies the gray area.

I don't see any "gray area" there, you ID'd within the allocated time frame, presumably some time before ten minutes AFTER the tuning, the plain English of the regulation calls that proper.


73

After the tuning?  Probably so, but I can't say for sure.  However we certainly had ID'd several times within 10 min.s ~before~ the tuning.
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K3SGB
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2012, 05:48:49 AM »

Quote from: K3SGB
...And since we had ID'ed (actually multiple times) within the last 10 minutes (on the same frequency, BTW), therein lies the gray area.


Actually, whether or not you had IDed on the frequency beforehand doesn't matter. The
question is, did you ID within 10 minutes afterwards, in the course of making further
contacts on that frequency.

If you tuned and didn't say anything further for 9 1/2 minutes before IDing, then I'd say you
should have IDed, because that was reasonably the end of the transmission.  But if you called
CQ a couple minutes afterwards, that is sufficient ID for the tuning transmission.


At the people level, there are two issues:  one is recognizing whether or not it is a rule
violation, and the second is how much of a deal to make about it.  Both are important
for newcomers to learn and understand.  We all make mistakes occasionally - forget to
ID in time (or the rig blows a fuse before we ID), or accidentally transmit with the VFO in
the wrong band segment, or whatever.  Yes, that's against the rules.  No, you won't
loose your license over an accident like that.  The point is to recognize it and learn
to be more careful next time.  The point is not to do it intentionally, and to minimize
the accidents.  FCC enforcement is limited to those who intentionally flaunt the rules.

The complaint was voiced ~immediately~ after the tuning, and I believe his thought was that we needed to ID for that explicit operation.  Certainly he did not wait to see what might transpire over the next 10 minute time period.

Yes, I believe we all understand that some infractions are worse than others.  This one would certainly fall into the "lesser" bin <g> (at least from the viewpoint of older, more exerienced hams).
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K3SGB
Member

Posts: 10




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2012, 05:54:33 AM »

RE: New ham's interpretaion....

Two workplace sayings come to mind.  1-A new broom always sweeps clean.
                                                   
                                                     2-He sounds like a sh..house lawyer.

Someone here mentioned common sense.  Go with that!

The young ham doesn't argue for the sake of it, but he does have a tendency toward perfectionism.  I have no doubt that his heart is in the right place.
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K3SGB
Member

Posts: 10




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 06:31:44 AM »

Hi All-

Let me express my appreciation to all for offering your thoughts and opinions.  I believe the "gray area" originally mentioned (if it's proper to label it as such -- ID'ing rules vs. unneeded interference) has been cleared up.  Thanks again!

73
John
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NO2A
Member

Posts: 768




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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 01:33:35 PM »

It`s hard to believe today,but years ago some hams have actually been fined for sending the "dit dit" on cw after the end of a qso. If you worked someone,then signed his call followed by yours,then "dit dit", it`s obvious it`s you that`s sending the dits. That`s strict! That was then though.
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W5DQ
Member

Posts: 1209


WWW

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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 04:04:17 PM »

Wouff Hongs for all, I say...



There is only ONE Wouff Hong and Readdy Snitch.

And most likely, most new hams have no idea what these are!
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
W9KDX
Member

Posts: 770




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2012, 07:33:41 PM »

It seems to me that the "waiting for 10 minutes" system only works when we plan to call CQ on that exact frequency.  It would almost never work for answering a call or searching for CQs unless we were rude enough to tune up on the caller's frequency.  I don't know the numbers, but I am fairly sure that the percentage or hams who tune up and then call CQ on the same frequency is (as a percentage of all the hams in the same period who tune up) probably less than 25%.  That means that the vast majority of tuners should be giving the call sign, per FCC regs.

We all know it doesn't happen, but based on my reading, and discussion here, I'm going to start.  5 watts is minimal interference and it is easy to add to the routine.  At least I will never  hear anyone chewing me out, as I will be tuned elsewhere.
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Sam
W9KDX
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